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1) SHAKING WITHOUT INTENT FOR "NISUCH" (cont.)

(a) Version #1 (our text, Rashi): Rav Huna bar Chinena came to Mechuza (Rava's city). Rava told Rav Elyakim to keep him out, lest he overwhelm him with questions; nevertheless, he entered.
(b) Rav Huna bar Chinena: What is the law in this case?
(c) Rava: It is forbidden to benefit from it.
(d) Rav Huna: But you said that shaking (without intent for Nisuch) does not make Yayin Nesech!
(e) Rava: (I agree that it makes Yayin Nesech;) I only permitted selling the mixture on condition to throw away the money corresponding to the Yayin Nesech. (This encounter was after Rava retracted on account of Abaye's questions (coming up), he was ashamed to admit his mistake.)
(f) Version #2 (Tosfos): Rav Nachman came to Mechuza. Rava went to see him; he told Rav Elyakim to keep *others* out, lest they distract them.
(g) Rava: What is the law in this case?
(h) Rav Nachman: It is forbidden to benefit from it.
(i) Rava: But you said that shaking (without intent for Nisuch) does not make Yayin Nesech!
(j) Rav Nachman: I only permitted selling the mixture on condition to throw away the money corresponding to the Yayin Nesech. (End of Version #2)
(k) Rava: When I came to Pumbadisa, Abaye refuted me from earlier Amora'im and a Beraisa.
(l) Question #1 (Abaye): Cases occurred, Shmuel (in Neharda'a) and R. Yochanan (in Tiverya) forbade benefit from it!
(m) Answer (Rava): That was not letter of the law, they were stringent because people of those cities are not learned (had they permitted, the inhabitants would have incorrectly extrapolated to other cases).
(n) Rejection (Abaye): Do you think that people of Mechuza are more learned than those of Neharda'a and Tiverya?!
(o) Question #2 (Abaye - Beraisa): A certain Nochri was appointed to supervise measures. He tasted wine and returned it to the barrel; Chachamim forbade it.

1. They forbade benefit from it!

(p) Answer (Rava): No, they only forbade drinking it.
(q) Rejection (Abaye): If so, it should say 'it must be sold', like the end of the Beraisa!

1. (End of the Beraisa): A case occurred, a crazed Nochri stuck his hand in wine, thinking that it was oil; Chachamim ruled, it must be sold.

(r) Rava is refuted.

(a) R. Yochanan ben Arza and R. Yosi ben Nehorai were drinking wine together; a man came, they offered him to drink. After he poured from the bottle into his cup, they realized that he was a Nochri. One of these two Chachamim permitted the bottle, one forbade it.

1. R. Yehoshua ben Levi: Each of them has a good reason!

2. The opinion that forbade reasoned, the Nochri assumed that distinguished Chachamim would not drink beer, surely it is wine - therefore, he was Menasech;
3. The opinion that permitted reasoned, the Nochri assumed that Chachamim would not invite a Nochri to drink wine, surely it is beer - therefore, he did not Menasech.
4. Question: The Nochri could see that it was wine!
5. Answer: It was at night.
6. Question: He could smell that it was wine!
7. Answer: It was new wine (which has no smell).
8. Question: But he touched the (Tosfos - wine when he used a) vessel to draw the wine from the barrel - even without intention, this forbids the wine!
9. Answer: No, he merely emptied the wine out from a bottle (he merely gave it Ko'ach (impetus));

i. Chachamim did not forbid a Nochri's Ko'ach when he did not intend to Menasech.

(b) Question (R. Asi): If a Nochri Masach (mixed) wine (with water), what is the law?

1. R. Yochanan: Why didn't you say Mazag (mixed, in the language of the Mishnayos)?
2. R. Asi: I use the language of Torah - "Tovechah Tivchah Mosechah Yeinah".
3. R. Yochanan: The language of Chachamim differs from that of the Torah!

(c) Answer (R. Yochanan): It is forbidden, on account of 'Lech Lech...' (a Nazir should stay far from a vineyard, and likewise, everyone should distance himself from transgression).
(d) In Savta, R. Yirmeyah saw Yisraelim drinking wine mixed by Nochrim; he forbade this, like R. Yochanan.