POINT BY POINT SUMMARY
Prepared by Rabbi P. Feldman
of Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Yerushalayim
Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld
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Previous daf Avodah Zarah 71
AVODAH ZARAH 69-71 - Three Dafim have been sponsored through the generous
grant of an anonymous donor in Flatbush, NY.
1) A NOCHRI PAYING THE TAXES OF A YISRAEL
(a) (Mishnah): If Yisraelim worked for a Nochri and he sent
them Yayin Nesech in lieu of wages, they may ask for its
2) SELLING WINE TO A NOCHRI
(b) Once they accepted the wine, it is forbidden (they may
not ask for anything in place of it).
(c) Version #1 - Rashi - (Gemara - Rav Yehudah): Reuven may
tell a Nochri 'Take care of my obligation to pay the
king's tithe (on produce)' (even if the Nochri will give
Yayin Nesech and Reuven will compensate him).
(d) Version #2 - Rambam - (Rav Yehudah): Reuven may tell a
Nochri 'Take care of Manas ha'Melech (the king forces
people to buy his extra wine) for me' (the Nochri buys
Yayin Nesech, Reuven compensates him). (end of Version
(e) Question (Beraisa): Reuven may not tell a Nochri 'Go in
my place to (pay) the king's officer' (Rashi - the Nochri
is Reuven's Shali'ach, it is as if Reuven pays his debt
with Yayin Nesech; Rambam - it is as if Reuven sells the
Yayin Nesech (which he must buy) to the Nochri).
(f) Answer (Rav): My case is different, it resembles the end
of the Beraisa.
1. (Beraisa): Reuven may tell a Nochri 'Save me from
the king's officer' (Rashi - the Nochri has many
ways to appease him, he is not Reuven's Shali'ach to
give Yayin Nesech; Tosfos - Reuven suggests
appeasing him with anything, therefore it is
permitted, even if the official insists on wine;
Rambam - the Nochri buys the wine for himself).
(a) (Mishnah): If a Yisrael sells wine to a Nochri:
1. If he was Posek (fixed the price) before he measured
out the wine, the money is permitted;
(b) (Gemara - Ameimar): A Nochri does acquire through
2. If he measured out the wine before he was Posek, the
money is forbidden (it is given for Yayin Nesech).
(c) Version #1 - Support: Persians send gifts to each other,
and do not retract.
(d) Version #2 - Support: Persian grain sellers send samples
to prospective buyers, if the buyer wants to keep (buy)
the sample, the seller allows him to, even though money
was not given yet. (End of Version #2)
(e) Rejection (Rav Ashi): Really, Nochrim do not acquire
1. They do not retract because they are haughty.
(f) Support (Rav Ashi, for himself): I learn from Rav.
1. Rav (to Yisrael wine sellers): When you sell to
Nochrim, take the money before you measure out the
i. If the buyers do not have money, lend them the
money, take the money before you measure out
the wine, and later collect the loan.
2. (Rav Ashi): If you will say that a Nochri acquires
through Meshichah, he acquires when it is measured,
it is not yet Yayin Nesech (until he touches it)!
ii. If you will not do so, your wine will become
Yayin Nesech while it still belongs to you, it
is forbidden to take money for Yayin Nesech.
(g) Rejection: If the Yisraelim would measure the wine into
their own vessels, this would be a good support;
3) DO NOCHRIM ACQUIRE THROUGH "MESHICHAH?"
1. Rather, the Yisraelim would measure into vessels of
Nochrim, the wine becomes Yayin Nesech once it
enters the vessels (and mixes with residues of Yayin
(h) Defense (of Rav Ashi): If Nochrim acquire through
Meshichah, he would acquire once the wine enters the
airspace of his vessel, it is not Yayin Nesech until it
reaches the bottom (and mixes with residues of Yayin
(i) Inference: The opinion that rejected Rav Ashi's support
holds that Nitzuk (a liquid flowing through the air) is
considered connected (therefore, the entire stream of
wine is Yayin Nesech, even what is above the vessel).
(j) Rejection: If the Nochri was holding his vessel in his
hands, this would be a valid inference;
1. However, the case is, the vessel rests on the ground
(therefore, he does not acquire until he picks it up
(after it is full), it is already Yayin Nesech).
(k) Question: Why doesn't the Nochri's vessel acquire for
1. Inference: We must say, the buyer's vessels do not
acquire in the owner's premises!
(l) Answer (and Rejection): No, perhaps they do acquire;
1. The case is, a drop of the Nochri's wine remained on
the lip of his vessel - the Yisrael's wine mixes
with this and becomes forbidden before it enters the
(m) Question: This is not like R. Shimon ben Gamliel, who
says that (if Kosher wine was mixed with Yayin Nesech)
one may sell the mixture, but he may take money only for
the (amount of) Kosher wine. (But the Halachah follows R.
Shimon ben Gamliel!)
(n) Answer: We are explaining Rav - Rav says that the
Halachah follows R. Shimon ben Gamliel only when barrels
of Kosher wine were mixed with barrels of Yayin Nesech,
but not if the wine itself mixed (for then all the wine
absorbs the Yayin Nesech).
(a) Question (against Ameimar - Beraisa): A Yisrael bought
scrap metal from a Nochri, and found idolatry among it:
1. If he did Meshichah but did not yet give the money,
he can return it (it was a mistaken sale);
(b) Answer #1 (Abaye): In the first clause it is a mistaken
sale (he never intended to buy idolatry, he never
acquired it). (This is the text in Bechoros, Rava's
response shows also here it is the correct text - Toras
2. If he did Meshichah after giving the money, he must
cast the idolatry to the Dead Sea.
3. If Nochrim acquire through Meshichah (and Yisraelim
acquire from them with Meshichah), why may he return
the idolatry (in the first clause) - he acquired it
(and owes its value - by returning it, he is selling
it back or paying his debt with it)!
(c) Objection (Rava): Also in the second clause, it is a
mistaken sale, there he may not return it!
(d) Answer #2 (Rava): In both clauses it is a mistaken sale;
1. In the first clause, he did not give money, it looks
like a mistaken sale;
(e) Question (against Rav Ashi - Mar Kashisha brei d'Rav
Chisda - Mishnah): If a Yisrael sells wine to a Nochri:
2. In the second clause, he gave money, it *looks like*
he bought it, he may not return it on account of
1. If he Pasak before measuring out the wine, the money
(f) Answer (Rav Ashi): The case is, the Nochri gave (more
than enough) money for the wine beforehand (his money
acquires for him before it becomes Yayin Nesech).
2. If Meshichah does not acquire (for a Nochri), the
money should be forbidden (it becomes Yayin Nesech
while it still belongs to the Yisrael)!
(g) Question (Mar Kashisha brei d'Rav Chisda): If so, also in
the end of the Mishnah (he measured out the wine before
he Pasak) the money should be permitted!
1. Counter-question (Rav Ashi): You say that Meshichah
acquires - why is the law different in the two
(h) Answer (Rav Ashi): Also I explain the difference between
the clauses in this way!
2. Answer (Rav Ashi): You must say, before Pesikah, he
is not sure he wants to buy, he does not acquire;
(i) Question (against Rav Ashi - Ravina - R. Chiya bar Aba):
A Ben No'ach is killed for stealing less than a Perutah
(from a Yisrael), he need not return it (because a
Yisrael pardons such a small amount).
1. If he does not acquire with Meshichah, why is he
killed (what he stole is not considered money, and
he did not even acquire it)!
(j) Answer (Rav Ashi): He is killed because he pained a
(k) Version #1 - Rashi - Question: Since it says 'he need not
*return* it', this implies that he acquired it!
(l) Answer: It means that he *cannot* return it, i.e. he did
not acquire it.
(m) Version #2 - Tosfos - Question: If (it is not considered
theft, rather) he is killed for paining a Yisrael,
obviously he need not return it (why must R. Chiya teach
(n) Answer: Indeed, this comes to teach that it is not
considered theft. (End of Version #2)
(o) (R. Chiya bar Aba): If another Nochri stole it from the
first, he is (also) killed.
1. We understand, the first is killed for paining a
Yisrael - but why is the second killed?
(p) Conclusion: We must say, a Nochri acquires through