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Prepared by Rabbi P. Feldman
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Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld


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Bava Basra 85

BAVA BASRA 82-85 - Sponsored by a generous grant from an anonymous donor. Kollel Iyun Hadaf is indebted to him for his encouragement and support and prays that Hashem will repay him in kind.

1) WHERE CAN VESSELS ACQUIRE?

(a) (Rav and Shmuel): The buyer's vessels acquire for him everywhere, except for in a public domain;
(b) (R. Yochanan and Reish Lakish): They acquire even in a public domain.
(c) (Rav Papa): They do not argue: Rav and Shmuel refer to a proper public domain, R. Yochanan and Reish Lakish refer to a Simta.
(d) Question: If they meant a Simta, why did they call it a public domain?
(e) Answer: Because it is not a private domain.
(f) Support (R. Avahu citing R. Yochanan): The buyer's vessels acquire anywhere he is allowed to place them.
1. They do not acquire where he is not allowed to place them, i.e. a public domain.
(g) Question (Beraisa): There are four laws regarding a sale: before the measure is full, the merchandise belongs to the seller; (this is relevant in case it will spill, the price will change, or one of them wants to retract);
1. After the measure is full, it belongs to the buyer;
2. This is when the measuring vessel belongs to someone else (and was lent to them);
i. If it belongs to one of them, the buyer acquires every amount as it enters the vessel.
3. This is in a public domain or a Chatzer that does not belong to either of them;
i. In the seller's premises, he does not acquire until he does Hagbahah or takes it out of the premises;
ii. In the buyer's premises, he acquires as soon as the seller agrees to sell.
iii. In the premises of Levi (by whom the merchandise was deposited), he does not acquire until Levi agrees that the buyer may use the premises to acquire, or rents the premises to him.
4. Summation of question: It says, in a public domain or a Chatzer that does not belong to either of them (the buyer acquires if one of them owns the vessel)!
85b---------------------------------------85b

5. Suggestion: The Beraisa refers to a proper public domain.
(h) Answer: No, it refers to a Simta.
(i) Question: But right after this it mentions a Chatzer that does not belong to either of them, presumably the same is true of the public domain (but in a Simta, each has the right to use it)!
(j) Answer: The Beraisa means, a domain that does not belong exclusively to either of them, rather it is their joint Chatzer.
2) THE BUYER'S VESSELS IN THE SELLER'S PREMISES
(a) Question (Rav Sheshes): Does a buyer acquire with his vessels in the seller's premises?
(b) Answer #1 (Rav Huna - Mishnah): A man threw a Get into his wife's garment or basket (in his premises) - she is divorced.
(c) Question (Rav Nachman): Why did Rav Huna answer from that Mishnah - many Chachamim rejected that proof!
(d) Rejection #1 (Rav Yehudah): The case is, the basket was hanging on her (it is not in his domain).
(e) Rejection #2 (Reish Lakish): Even if the basket was tied to her but dragging on the ground (she is divorced).
(f) Rejection #3 (Rav Ada bar Ahavah): The case is, the basket was between her legs (he allows her to use the place between her legs).
(g) Rejection #4 (Rav Mesharshiya brei d'R. Ami): The case is, he sells baskets (therefore, he allows her to use place of the basket).
(h) Rejection #5 (R. Yochanan): A man allows his wife to use the place of her garment and basket.
(i) Answer #2 (Rav Nachman - Beraisa): In the seller's premises, he does not acquire until he does Hagbahah or takes it out of the premises.
1. Suggestion: This is even if the vessel belongs to the buyer.
(j) Rejection: No, it is only when the seller owns it.
(k) Question: If that case refers to the seller's vessel, also the next case!
1. (Beraisa): In the buyer's premises, he acquires as soon as the seller agrees to sell.
2. Why should he acquire in the seller's vessel?!
(l) Answer: That refers to the buyer's vessel.
(m) Question: Why does the Beraisa assume (in the first clause) that they use the seller's vessel, and in the second clause, it is the buyer's vessel?
(n) Answer: The seller's vessels are more common in the seller's premises. the buyer's vessels are more common in the buyer's premises.
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