ANSWERS TO REVIEW QUESTIONS
prepared by Rabbi Eliezer Chrysler
Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Jerusalem
Previous dafBeitzah 28
BEITZAH 26, 27, 28, 29 - dedicated by Yitzchak Gross of Brooklyn, NY, l'Iluy Nishmas his father, Menashe Yehudah ben Matisyahu, and his mother, Dina bas Yisroel.
(a) It is forbidden to weigh using weights on Yom-Tov.
(b) Rebbi Yehudah permits using scales on Yom-Tov - by weighing the meat
(for example) against a vessel whose weight he knows.
(c) The Chachamim say 'Ein Mishtamshin be'Chaf Moznayim *Kol Ikar*' - to
forbid using scales, even if it is only to guard the food against mice.
(d) He would permit that however, if the scales were not hanging on the wall
(in the way that they are positioned when one weighs with them)?
(a) Rav Yehudah Amar Shmuel forbids ...
1. ... an experienced butcher to weigh a piece of meat against a weight that
one is holding in the other hand (because an expert can assess the exact
weight in this way).
(b) Rav Chiya bar Ashi forbids making a handle in a piece of meat. Ravina
confines this to one that is formed with a knife - (because it is
'weekdayish', but permits a hole that he pokes into the meat with his
finger, which is *not*.
2. ... an experienced butcher to weigh in water - which means using a
measuring cup (because an expert can assess the weight by the level of the
water by the markings on the vessel).
(c) One may make a Si'man on a piece of meat on Yom-Tov - to ensure that the
Sheli'ach who transports the meat (assuming he is a Nochri) does not swap
the meat for a piece of non-Kasher meat.
(a) Rebbi Chiya and Rebbi Shimon b'Rebbi would divide meat between them by
weighing a Manah against a Manah (on the scales). This is difficult, because
- Rebbi Yehudah in our Mishnah permits only weighing meat against a vessel,
but not against another piece of meat (which is considered 'weekdayish'); as
for the Rabbanan, using scales is Asur in any event.
(b) We resolve this problem by establishing Rebbi Chiya and Rebbi Shimon
b'Rebbi like Rebbi Yehoshua, who permits weighing a Manah against a Manah.
(c) Rav Yosef rule like Rebbi Yehoshua - because a S'tam Mishnah in Bechoros
holds like him.
(a) According to the Mishnah in Bechoros, one is permitted to ...
1. ... weigh a Manah against a Manah when selling a Bechor, even though it
is forbidden to weigh it on scales using weights - because it is not
(b) Abaye disagrees with Rav Yosef's connection between Yom-Tov and Kodshim.
In his opinion, the Heter of weighing a Manah against a Manah ...
2. ... sell other Kodshim even using scales to weigh them, and even in a
shop - because the proceeds go to Hekdesh, whereas the proceeds of a Bechor
that one sells, go to the owner (which is why both are forbidden by a
1. ... on Yom-Tov, according to Rebbi Yehoshua, may well not apply to
Kodshim - where we must contend with the denigration of Kodshim.
(c) The fact that Rebbi Chiya and Rebbi Shimon b'Rebbi found it necessary to
weigh the meat when dividing it - is strange in the face of another incident
(where Rebbi Chiya once took five out of seven fish for his family, yet
Rebbi Shimon b'Rebbi was not in the least angry). From here we see that they
were close friends and were not in the least fussy if one received more than
2. ... by Bechor, according to the Chachamim, may well not apply to the case
of Rebbi Chiya and Rebbi Shimon b'Rebbi on Yom-Tov - because there it was a
matter of two partners dividing the meat, which is 'weekdayish', seeing as
it was normal to divide things in that manner; whereas by Bechor, it was not
normal to sell meat like that, and it is therefore not considered
'weekdayish' to do so. (Consequently, Rav Yosef's proof that the Halachah is
like Rebbi Yehoshua falls away).
(d) Rav Papa resolves this problem - by changing one of the names of the
pair: either it was Rebbi Chiya and Rebbi Yishmael b'Rebbi Yossi, or Rebbi
Shimon b'Rebbi and Bar Kapara.
(a) One may not use a grindstone to sharpen a knife on Yom-Tov. Our Mishnah
permits rubbing one knife against another (because it constitutes a Shinuy)
- Rav Huna restricts the Isur in our Mishnah to a grindstone, but a wooden
grinder is permitted.
(b) According to the first Lashon, Rav Yehudah Amar Shmuel (referring to the
Reisha of Rav Huna) permits even *sharpening the knife* provided one uses a
wooden sharpener - a grind-stone is permitted if it is only in order to
*remove the fat* from the knife.
(c) According to the second Lashon, a grindstone is completely forbidden - a
wooden grinder will be permitted only to remove the fat.
(d) According to the third Lashon, Rav Yehudah Amar Shmuel refers to the
Reisha of our Mishnah, permitting even a grindstone to be used to remove the
fat that is stuck to the knife. In that case, the Heter in the Seifa of
rubbing one knife against another, even extends to sharpening it. In the
fourth Lashon, Rav Yehudah Amar Shmuel refers to the Seifa of the Mishnah -
which permits only the rubbing of one knife against another; that is
specifically to remove the fat, he explains, for which a grind-stone may not
be used. As far as sharpening the knife is concerned, however, there is no
Heter at all, not even if one uses a wooden grinder.
(a) The author of our Mishnah, which forbids using a grindstone to sharpen a
knife - cannot be Rebbi Yehudah, who permits even Machshirei Ochel Nefesh on
Yom-Tov, incorporating whatever is needed for Yom-Tov ("Lachem" - 'le'Chol
(b) When Rava asked Rav Chisda whether they should Darshen in his name that
the Halachah is like Rebbi Yehudah - he replied that one should only say
such nice things in his name.
(c) Rava told Rav Nechemyah Brei de'Rav Yosef that he was rubbing a knife
against the rim of a basket in order to clean off the fat - in reality, he
was doing it in order to sharpen the knife. The reason that he did not want
to say so is because, in his opinion, although the Halachah is Rebbi
Yehudah, one does not publicize this (only that someone who knows the
Halachah, may rely on it).
(d) Rava (and Rabah) did not want to rule like Rebbi Yehudah publicly -
because of the strong likelihood that people will abuse this ruling, and
permit even those Machshirin which could have been performed before Yom-Tov.
(a) There is a Machlokes Amora'im as to whether one may show one's Chalif
(Shechitah knife) before Shechting (even though it is obligatory to do so).
Chazal may have forbidden it - because it is 'weekdayish' (it looks as if
one intends to sell meat in a shop (see also Rosh, Si'man 12, and Shulchan
Aruch, Orach Chayim Si'man 498:1).
(b) To get around this prohibition - a Talmid-Chacham could examine his own
Chalif and lend it to the Shochet.
(c) It is forbidden to sharpen a knife whose blade is completely spoilt on
Yom-Tov - because it should have occurred to him before Yom-Tov that the
knife will be unusable, whereas a blunt knife, one may well not sharpen
before Yom-Tov, because one thinks that he will manage with the knife as it
(d) It is forbidden to sharpen a knife which is completely blunt on Yom-Tov
however - because it entails excessive bother.
(a) Rebbi Yehudah (Who Darshens "Lachem" - 'le'Chol Tzorcheichem') permits
sharpening a knife or a spit-rod, and clearing an oven of its ashes on Yom-
(b) The Rabbanan learn from the word ...
(c) Rebbi Yehudah learns from ...
- ... "*Hu* (Levado Ye'aseh Lachem)" - "Hu" - 've'Lo Machshirav'.
- ... "Lachem" - 've'Lo le'Nochrim'.
(d) It is forbidden to straighten a spit-rod that became bent - because one
is able to use it as it is, making it an unnecessary bother (The Chidush is
that even when he does not need an implement to straighten it, but is able
to repair it with his hands, it is nevertheless forbidden).
- ... "Hu" - to *exclude* Machshirin which he *could* prepare before Yom-Tov.
- ... "Lachem" - to *include* Machshirin which he could *not*.
(a) A spit-rod is Muktzah on Yom-Tov, after one has roasted one's meat on it
- because it becomes very ugly (nor does one have any more need of it).
(b) According to Rav Ada bar Ahavah Amar Rav Malkiyo - he is permitted to
quickly drag it into a corner, without actually holding it properly.
(c) According to Rav Huna, it is only permitted if there *is* a k'Zayis of
meat on it - Ravina allows it even there is *not*, because, due to its
pointed end, it is dangerous and therefore permitted, just like a dangerous
thorn in the street, which one may remove, to avoid people getting hurt.
(a) According to Rav Chinena Brei de'Rav Ika, the author of 'Sh'fod' (our
case), 'Shefachos' and 'Gumos' is Rav Malkiyo; of 'Beluris', 'Eifer Makleh'
and 'Gevinah', Rav Malkiya - according to Rav Papa, whatever deals with a
Mishnah or Beraisa, is Rav Malkiya, whatever is just a plain Machlokes
Amora'im, is Rav Malkiyo (The Si'man to remember this is that both Mishnah
and Beraisa end with an a., just like Malkiya).
(b) The difference between them is Shefachos, which is a Mishnah.
Consequently, according to Rav Papa, it would be Rav *Malkiya* who said it
(and not Rav *Malkiyo*, as Rav Chinena Brei de'Rav Ika maintains) - see also
Tosfos DH 'Ika Beinaihu'.
(a) The butcher (Shochet) Shechts the animal - and the people simply divide
it into portions. One should take care not to ask him for a Dinar's-worth of
meat (since one may not mention amounts on Yom-Tov).
(b) In Sura, they would say to the butcher 'Give me a Tarta or half a
Tarta; in Neresh, ' ... a Chalka or half a Chalka, and in Nahar Pakud and in
Masa Machsaya, ' ... a Riv'a or half a Riv'a'. This refers to standard
pieces of meat, which were called 'Tarta' in Sura, 'Chalka' in Neresh and
'Riv'a' in Masa Mechsaya (this method of distribution facilitated the
distribution on Yom-Tov and paying the bill after Yom-Tov).