Ask A Question about the Daf

Previous daf

Bava Metzia, 44

44b

QUESTION: The Gemara relates how Rav borrowed gold coins from the daughter of Rebbi Chiya. Later, when the value of gold appreciated in relation to the value of silver, Rav asked Rebbi Chiya whether it was permitted for him to pay back the same number of gold coins as he borrowed. If gold is considered a currency, then it would be permitted, and it would not be considered Ribis. If gold is considered merchandise, then Rav would have to pay back gold valued at the same number of silver coins that the gold was worth at the time it was borrowed. If he pays back the same number of gold coins as he originally borrowed, it would be considered Ribis, since more silver coins can be acquired by those gold coins. Rebbi Chiya answered that he is permitted to pay back all of the gold coins, because gold is considered currency in relation to silver.

Rav did not ask Rebbi Chiya whether it was permitted to borrow the gold coins in the first place, with the intention of paying back the same coins later. Rather, only when it was time to pay back did he ask how he may pay back the loan. Why did Rav not ask Rebbi Chiya whether it was permitted to borrow the gold coins in the first place, with the intention of paying back the same coins later? Indeed, we find that Rebbi Yochanan teaches (beginning of 45a) that it is prohibited even to *borrow* a gold coin in the first place with intention to pay back a gold coin!

ANSWERS:

(a) The RITVA cites his "teacher's teacher" (the RAMBAN) as saying that Rebbi Yochanan did not intend to prohibit borrowing a gold coin with intention to return the gold coin. Rather, his statement should be read as saying that it is prohibited to borrow a gold coin *if* one pays back a gold coin after gold appreciates. The prohibition applies only at the time that the loan is being repaid.

The HE'AROS B'MASECHES BAVA METZIA adds that even if it is normally prohibited to borrow a gold coin with the explicit intention of paying back a gold coin, Rav might have permitted it in this case.

The prohibition of *paying* back a gold coin is mid'Oraisa, but the prohibition of *stipulating* to pay back gold (even if the market price of gold changes) is mid'Rabanan. Since Rav was unsure of the whether gold is considered merchandise (and the laws of Ribis are applicable) or not, he was lenient with regard to the Isur mid'Rabanan, and only asked Rebbi Chiya for permission to pay when it came to a question regarding the Isur mid'Oraisa.

(b) The RITVA himself suggests that there is a prohibition to borrow a gold coin if it is stipulated at the time of the loan that the borrower will repay a gold coin even if gold appreciates. Rav, however, did not stipulate at the time that he borrowed the coins that he would pay back an equal amount of gold even if it appreciates. Therefore, it was permitted for him to borrow the gold. His only question was how he should pay it back after the gold appreciated. Even though he did not stipulate that he would pay back an equivalent amount of gold coins, nevertheless if gold did appreciate, then it would be prohibited for him to pay back gold coins that are worth more than the gold coins that he borrowed. (The TAZ (YD 162:103) and the RASHASH suggest the same answer.)

The Ramban, who does not accept this answer, might have learned that if Rav had not stipulated at the time that he borrowed the money that he would pay back the same amount of gold coins, then it would have been permitted for him to pay back the lesser amount of silver when the price of gold fluctuated.

(c) The RASHBA writes that at the time that Rav borrowed the money, he was confident that gold was considered currency and not merchandise. Later, when the time came to repay, he had doubts, and therefore he went to ask Rebbi Chiya.

QUESTION: The Gemara discusses whether a gold coin, when compared with silver, is considered currency or merchandise. The Gemara adduces proof from a Beraisa which states that there are 25 Dinarim of Kesef in one Dinar of Zahav (i.e. one Dinar of Kesef is worth 1/25th of a Dinar of Zahav). The practical ramification of this value is how much must be paid for Pidyon ha'Ben. The amount of money necessary for Pidyon ha'Ben is always linked to the value of gold and not to the value of silver. The Gemara concludes based on this that gold is indeed considered a currency, and if the value of silver changes in relation to gold, the value of gold is what determines the amount given to a Kohen for Pidyon ha'Ben.

How can the value of Pidyon ha'Ben be determined by the value of gold and not by the value of silver? The Torah specifically states that the amount that must be paid for Pidyon ha'Ben is "Kesef Chameshes Shekalim b'Shekel ha'Kodesh, Esrim Gerah Hu" -- five silver Kesef, which are twenty Gerah (Vayikra 18:16)! (RITVA)

ANSWER: The RITVA and TOSFOS HA'ROSH answer that if silver is considered merchandise and not currency in relation to gold, then it is logical to assume that the Torah would not link the value of Pidyon ha'Ben to the price of an item of a fluctuating commodity (i.e. merchandise). Rather, the Torah only mentions five Shekalim of Kesef because that was the equivalent of four-fifths of a Dinar of gold at the time that the Torah was given. The real price of Pidyon, though, is not five Shekalim of Kesef, but the equivalent of that amount in gold, at that time. The Chachamim had a tradition that the amount of gold equal to five Shekalim of silver was equal to four-fifths of a Dinar of gold.

TOSFOS RABEINU PERETZ adds that this is what the Torah means when it links the Shekel of Pidyon ha'Ben to a Gerah (according to the opinion that gold is considered currency when compared with silver). The Gerah was a coin that was linked to the price of gold and not to the price of silver. The Torah is saying that the price of Pidyon ha'Ben is not really linked to the value of five silver Shekalim, but rather to the value of twenty Gerah. The TARGUM -- who writes that twenty Gerah is twenty "Ma'in" -- is not giving a literal translation of Gerah, because "Ma'in" are silver coins. Rather, he is converting the Gerah to a coin which was common in his time, which was made out of silver, and which was worth the same amount at that time.