Ask A Question on the daf

Previous daf

1) RETURNING THROUGH SIMANIM (Distinguishing marks)

(a) Rabah bar bar Chana lost a Get in the Beis Medrash. He said 'I have a Siman; also, I recognize the Get; they returned it to him.

1. Rabah: I do not know if they returned it to me because of the Siman - if so, they hold that (mediocre) Simanim work mid'Oraisa;
2. Or - perhaps they returned it because I recognize it - we only allow this by a Chacham.

(b) (Beraisa): A Get was found in the market - if the husband says to give it, we give it to his wife; if not, we do not return it to either of them.
(c) Question: When the husband agrees, why do we give it to her - perhaps it was not given until after the date written!

1. If her husband sold produce of her property in the interim, she might use the Get to make us believe that she was already divorced, and she will take the produce from the buyer!

(d) Answer #1:According to the opinion that from the time a husband writes a Get, he is not entitled to produce of her property, she deserves to take the produce!

1. Question: How can we answer according to the opinion that he gets the produce until he divorces her?

(e) Answer #2: When she comes to take the produce, the buyer will demand that she prove that she was divorced at the time.
(f) Question: Why is this different than loan documents?

1. (Mishnah): One who finds a loan document with Acharayos, he should not return it, because Beis Din will make the borrower (Shimon) pay.
2. We established the Mishnah when Shimon admits; we are concerned that the loan was given later than the date written, and the lender might use the document to illegitimately collect property that Shimon sold in the interim.

i. Why don't we say, when he comes to take the property, the buyer will demand that he prove that the document was given before the sale?

(g) Answer: By a Get, the buyer will realize that Beis Din returned it to her so she will be able to remarry, even if it was not given on the date written - he will demand that she bring proof;

1. By a loan document, he will assume that Beis Din returned it in order that the lender use it to collect from buyers, he will not demand proof.

(a) (Mishnah): Documents of freedom...
(b) (Beraisa): A Get of freedom was found in the market - if the master says to give it, we give it to the slave; if not, we do not return it to either of them.
(c) Question: When the master agrees, why do we give it - perhaps it was not given until after the date written!

1. If the slave bought property in the interim, and the master sold it, the slave might use the Get to make us believe that he was already freed, and he will take the property from the buyer!

(d) Answer #1:According to the opinion that it is advantageous for a slave to go free, we can answer as Abaye, who says that when witnesses sign a document, the receiver acquires immediately (the slave indeed is free from the time the Get was signed);

1. Question: How can we answer according to the opinion that it is detrimental for a slave to go free?

(e) Answer #2: When he comes to take the property, the buyer will demand that he prove that he was free at the time.

(a) (Mishnah): Gift Daitiki (documents)...
(b) (Beraisa): What is a 'Daitiki'? 'Da Tehei l'Meikam (this will be established) to be' - if the giver dies, his property goes to Ploni.

1. What is a (standard) gift document? If it says 'from today and after my death'.
2. Question: If it does not say 'from today and after my death' it does not acquire?!
3. Answer (Abaye): The Beraisa means: which gift of a healthy person is like a gift of a dying person, that only acquires after the giver dies? If it says 'from today and after my death'.

(c) Inference: The Mishnah says that we do not give them, for perhaps the giver reconsidered - but if he said to give them, we would!
(d) Contradiction (Beraisa): One who finds a Daitiki, Apotiki or gift document - even though both sides agree, he should not return it to either party.

(e) Answer #1 (R. Aba bar Mamal): By a gift of a dying person (Levi), we give it, because Levi can retract;

1. Even if (he never gave this document to Reuven) he decided to give the property to Shimon, whether as a gift of a dying person or a normal gift, Shimon properly gets it!
2. By a gift of a healthy person, we do not give it, because Levi may not retract;

i. Perhaps he never gave this document to Reuven because he reconsidered to give to Shimon, and wrote and gave a gift document to Shimon, and now he regrets this and wants to give to Reuven. If we give the document to Reuven, people will assume it was given on the date written, and Reuven will illegitimately get the property;
ii. If Levi did not give it to anyone else and still wants Reuven to have it, he can write another document now!

(f) Objection (Rav Zvid): Both the Mishnah and Beraisa say Daitiki (i.e. a gift of a dying person)!
(g) Answer #2 (Rav Zvid): Both speak of gifts of a dying person; the Mishnah says that we give it (when Levi says to do so), because he may retract if he wants (as above);

1. The Beraisa says that we do not give it when Levi died and his son says to give it;

i. Perhaps Levi never gave this document to Reuven; Levi's son (David) inherited the property, and gave it to Shimon, and now he regrets this.
ii. David cannot retract his own gift - we are concerned lest he scheme with Reuven to give him the document; people will assume he received it in the father's lifetime, and Reuven will get the property and split it with David.
iii. If David did not give it to anyone else and wants Reuven to have it, he can give it to him now!