POINT BY POINT SUMMARY
Prepared by Rabbi P. Feldman
of Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Yerushalayim
Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld
Ask A Question on the daf
Previous daf Chulin 48
CHULIN 47-50 - sponsored by Dr. Lindsay A. Rosenwald of Lawrence NY, in
honor of his father, David ben Aharon ha'Levy Rosenwald of blessed memory.
1) LUNGS THAT STUCK TO THE RIBS
(a) (Rav Yosef bar Minyomi citing Rav Nachman): If a lung is
stuck to the wall (of the rib cage), we are not
1. If blisters sprouted, we are concerned.
(b) (Mar Yehudah): In both cases we are concerned.
(c) Question: How do we check it?
(d) Answer (Rava): One separates them with a sharp knife. If
a wound is found on the wall, we attribute the blisters
to it, it is Kosher;
1. If not, we assume that there was a hole in the lung,
it is Tereifah (even if no air escapes when we blow
into the lung (perhaps a scab covers the hole) -
Bach deletes this from the text).
(e) (Mar Zutra brei d'Rav Huna brei d'Rav Papa): I heard that
R. Nechemyah's test was said regarding Rava's law.
2. Even if a wound was found on the wall, R. Nechemyah
brei d'Rav Yosef would check it;
i. He would put the lung in lukewarm water and
blow into it - if bubbles appear, it is
1. (Rava): If a scab formed between two (non-adjacent)
chambers of the lung, testing will not help, it is
(f) Objection (Rav Ashi): I understand why R. Nechemyah's
test may be used when the lung is stuck to the wall - we
can attribute the scab to a wound in the wall;
2. R. Nechemyah would test with warm water (as above).
1. But in Rava's case, no matter which chamber is
wounded, it is Tereifah!
(g) Question: Did Rav Nachman really say that if there are
blisters, we are concerned?!
1. Contradiction (Rav Nachman): If the lung was
punctured and the wall seals the wound, it is
(h) Answer (Ravina): Rav Nachman is Machshir only if the lung
sticks to the flesh between ribs.
(i) Question (Rav Yosef): Will you say that if the lung does
not stick to the flesh between ribs, it is Tereifah,
because there is a hole?!
1. If so, even if the lung sticks to the flesh, it is
(j) Answer (Ravina): No - it excludes a scab that forms on a
hole in the lung, *that* does not help.
2. (Beraisa): If a man's Ever was punctured, he is a
Petzu'a Daka (and forbidden to marry); if the hole
was sealed, he can bear children, hence he (is not a
Petzu'a Daka and) may marry; *this* is a
disqualification which can become permitted.
i. Suggestion: '*this* ' comes to exclude our case
(the sealing does not make the animal Kosher).
(k) Question (Rav Ukva bar Chama): (Ravina says that the wall
may seal a hole in lung;) if the wall would be punctured
there, it would be Tereifah; if so, a punctured wall
should be listed with the other Tereifos in our Mishnah!
1. Counter-question: R. Yitzchak bar Yosef taught, if
the liver seals a punctured gall bladder, it is
Kosher - if the liver would be punctured there, it
would be Tereifah - why doesn't the Mishnah list a
(l) Answer: Here also, a punctured wall it is not listed
because it is Tereifah on account of the lung!
2. Answer: You must say, the Mishnah does not list a
punctured liver because the animal is Tereifah on
account of the gall bladder.
(a) Question (Rabah bar bar Chanah): If blisters developed on
the lungs, what is the law?
(b) Answer (Shmuel): It is Kosher.
1. Rabah bar bar Chanah: I agree, but the Talmidim
waver on this on account of Rav Masnah's law.
(c) R. Yitzchak bar Yosef wanted to see if R. Yirmeyah would
buy meat of an animal whose lungs were full of blisters;
R. Yirmeyah declined.
i. (Rav Masnah): If a blister is full of puss, it
is Tereifah; if it is full of clear water, it
2. Shmuel: That was said regarding the kidney.
1. R. Yirmeyah: When people ask R. Yochanan about such
animals, he tells them to ask R. Yehudah b'Rebbi
Shimon, who has a tradition that it is Kosher; R.
Yochanan himself is not inclined to say this.
(d) (Rava): Rav Nachman saw meat for sale, and there were
large blisters on the lungs, he said nothing.
3) A NEEDLE IN THE LUNGS
1. R. Ami and R. Asi saw meat for sale, there were
giant, rock-hard blisters on the lungs; they said
(a) (R. Yochanan (and R. Elazar...)): If a needle is found in
the lungs, it is Kosher;
(b) (Reish Lakish (and...)): It is Tereifah.
(c) Suggestion: They argue whether a Chisaron in the interior
of the lungs ('consumed' by the needle) is problematic.
(d) Rejection: No - all agree, this is not a problem.
1. Rather, R. Yochanan assumes that the needle came
through the Kaneh (even a hole up to half the
circumference of the Kaneh does not make it
(e) A case occurred, a needle was found in a piece of the
lungs; R. Ami wanted to Machshir.
2. Reish Lakish is concerned lest it came through the
Veshet (and punctured the intestines or lungs on the
way, making it Tereifah).
(f) Question (R. Yirmeyah - Mishnah): If the lungs were
punctured or Chaser (it is Tereifah).
1. Question: What is the case of Chaser?
(g) They asked R. Yitzchak Nafcha; he also wanted to
Machshir. They asked R. Yirmeyah's question; R. Ami
(Shitah Mekubetzes - R. Yitzchak) retracted, and ruled
that it is Tereifah.
i. Suggestion: If the Chisaron extends to the
outside - that is the same like punctured!
2. Answer: Rather, they are lacking internally - this
teaches that an interior Chisaron makes it Tereifah!
(h) Question: But R. Yochanan (and...) is Machshir!
(i) Answer (R. Ami or R. Yitzchak): That was when the lungs
were whole, one could see that they were not punctured;
here, we only see part of the lungs, perhaps another part
(j) Inference: If the lungs were in front of us and not
punctured, it would be Kosher!
(k) Question: But Rav Nachman taught, if a branch of the lung
is punctured, it is Tereifah!
(l) Answer: That is when the puncture goes from one branch to
(m) Question: But Rav Nachman taught, if the small intestines
were punctured where they touch, it is Kosher, for they
protect each other.
(n) Answer (Rav Ashi): One cannot compare Tereifos - cutting
an animal in one place makes it die, in another
(seemingly worse) place it can survive!
(o) A needle was found in the great chamber of the lungs.
Reish Lakish (and...), who said that a needle found in
the lungs is Tereifah, did not want to rule on this.
1. They did not permit it, for they are concerned that
it may have come through the Veshet.
2. They did not forbid it - since it was found in the
great chamber, it is more likely that it came
through the Kaneh.