POINT BY POINT SUMMARY
Prepared by Rabbi P. Feldman
of Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Yerushalayim
Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld
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Previous daf Gitin 11
GITIN 11 - Dedicated by Al and Sophia Ziegler (Har Nof) in loving memory of
Al's mother, Chaya bas Berel Dov Ziegler.
1) NON-JEWISH NAMES
(a) Question: What kinds of names are clearly non-Jewish?
2) DOCUMENTS OF NOCHRIM
(b) Answer (Rav Papa): Hormiz, Avudaina bar Shivetai, ...
(c) Question: But names which could be Jewish - the Get is
1. If so, why does the end of the Mishnah teach, 'they
are only invalid when done by commoners' - even when
judges do the Gitin, we can distinguish!
(d) Answer #1: That is what the Mishnah means!
2. They are only valid when the judges' names are
clearly non-Jewish; if not, they are invalid!
1. They are only valid when the judges' names are
clearly non-Jewish; if not, they are as if they were
done by commoners, and are invalid.
(e) Answer #2: The end of the Mishnah refers to monetary
1. It teaches, monetary documents are only invalid when
done by commoners.
(f) (Beraisa - R. Shimon): R. Akiva and Chachamim agree that
all documents made in Nochri courts are valid, even if
Nochrim signed them, even Gitin of divorce or freedom;
1. They only argue when they are done by commoners; R.
Akiva says they are valid, Chachamim say, invalid,
except for Gitin of divorce or freedom (which all
agree are valid, even when done by commoners).
2. R. Shimon ben Gamliel says, Gitin of divorce or
freedom (signed by Nochri commoners) are only valid
in places where Yisraelim do not normally sign them.
3. Question: He should decree that they are invalid
even where Yisraelim do not normally sign them, on
account of places where Yisraelim normally sign
4. Answer: In a place where Yisraelim normally sign, if
we would accept Gitin with clearly non-Jewish names,
people will also accept Gitin with names that could
be Jewish (and they might rely on the signatures) -
people do not distinguish between the difference in
i. But we can accept Gitin (with clearly
non-Jewish names) in places where Yisraelim
normally do not sign them, and people will not
come to accept them in places where Yisraelim
normally sign them.
(a) Ravina was about to accept monetary documents made in
gatherings of Nochrim.
1. Rafram: The Mishnah only accepts those made in their
(b) (Rava): A Persian document that was given in front of
Jewish witnesses may be used to collect from free
(c) Question: But the witnesses that saw it given cannot read
(d) Answer: The case is, they can.
(e) Question: But we require unforgeable writing!
(f) Answer: The case is, the paper was treated with gallnuts,
so the writing is unforgeable.
(g) Question: But we require that the bottom line of the
document repeat the essence of the document!
(h) Answer: The case is, it does.
(i) Question: If so, one should be able to collect even from
(j) Answer: No, because people do not hear about the document
(and buyers did not know to beware).
(k) Version #1 - Question (Reish Lakish): Witnesses signed on
a Get, and the names sound non-Jewish - what is the law?
(l) Answer (R. Yochanan): The only case we had, the names
were Lukas and Luke; we accepted it.
3) ACQUIRING ON BEHALF OF OTHERS
1. We only accepted these names; but names which
Yisraelim often have, the Get would be invalid.
(m) Question (Beraisa): Signed Gitin from abroad, even though
the witnesses' names are as Nochri names, are valid,
since most Yisraelim in Chutz La'aretz have Nochri names.
(n) Answer: The Beraisa itself gives the reason - because
most Yisraelim in Chutz La'aretz have Nochri names!
(o) Version #2 - Question (Reish Lakish): What is the law of
signed Gitin from abroad, on which the witnesses' names
are as Nochri names?
(p) Answer (R. Yochanan - Beraisa): They are valid, since
most Yisraelim in Chutz La'aretz have Nochri names.
(a) (Mishnah): A man says, 'Give this Get to my wife, or give
this Get to my slave' - in either case, he may retract;
(b) Chachamim say, he can retract by his wife, but not by his
1. This is because we may do something beneficial for a
person when he is not there (i.e. the messenger took
the Get of freedom on behalf of the slave), but not
something detrimental (to accept a Get on behalf of
(c) (Gemara - Rav Huna): We learn from Chachamim, one who
seizes property from a borrower on behalf of a lender, he
acquires it for him (just as the messenger acquired the
Get of freedom for the slave).
i. (It is beneficial for a slave to become free,
but not for a woman to become divorced, because
a man can refuse to feed his slave, but not his
2. R. Meir: Freedom is also detrimental - it
disqualifies the slave from eating Terumah, just as
divorcing his wife!
3. Chachamim: That is because the slave is the master's
(d) Question (R. Yitzchak bar Yosef): Does this apply even if
this harms others (e.g. other creditors)?
(e) Answer (Rav Huna): Yes!
(f) R. Yirmeyah: Children! R. Yochanan taught, one who seizes
property from a borrower on behalf of a lender does not
acquire it for him.
1. The proof (to the contrary) from our Mishnah is
invalid - one who says 'Give' is understood to mean
'Acquire for' (but if not for this - as in the case
of seizing property for a creditor - he does not
(g) (Rav Chisda): R. Eliezer and Chachamim argue regarding
one who seizes property from a borrower on behalf of a
1. (Mishnah - R. Eliezer): A man gathered Pe'ah on
behalf of Peloni, a poor man - it belongs to Peloni;
2. Chachamim say, he should give it to the first poor
man he encounters.