POINT BY POINT SUMMARY
Prepared by Rabbi P. Feldman
of Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Yerushalayim
Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld
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Previous daf Horayos 10
HORAYOS 9-10 - One week of study material has been dedicated by Mrs. Rita
Grunberger of Queens, N.Y., in loving memory of her husband, Reb Yitzchok
Yakov ben Eliyahu Grunberger. Irving Grunberger helped many people quietly
in an unassuming manner and is dearly missed by all who knew him. His
Yahrzeit is 10 Sivan.
***** PEREK KOHEN MOSHI'ACH *****
1) ONE WHO WAS DEMOTED
(a) (Mishnah): If a Mashu'ach sinned, and then he was removed
from his position, or if a Nasi sinned and was dethroned,
the Kohen brings a Par, the Nasi brings a Sa'ir;
2) ONE WHO WAS PROMOTED
(b) If they sinned after they were demoted, the Kohen brings
a Par, the Nasi is like a commoner.
(c) (Gemara) Question: If the Kohen brings a Par for sinning
after he was demoted, surely he brings a Par for sinning
before he was demoted (why must the Mishnah teach this?)!
(d) Answer: If a Nasi sinned after he was demoted, he is like
a commoner, both cases of Nasi had to be taught;
1. Since both cases were taught regarding a Nasi, they
were both taught regarding a Mashu'ach.
(e) Question: What is the source of this?
(f) Answer: "(A Mashu'ach) will offer for his sin" - he
brings his Chatas after he is demoted.
1. One might have thought to learn from a Kal
(g) Suggestion: A Kal va'Chomer should teach that a Nasi is
liable after he is deposed!
i. A Nasi is liable for sinning b'Shogeg, yet he
is exempt after he is deposed - a Mashu'ach is
exempt for Shogeg (without Hora'ah), all the
more so he is exempt after he is demoted!
2. The verse teaches that he is liable after he is
1. A Mashu'ach is exempt for Shogeg (alone, without
Hora'ah), yet he is liable after he is demoted;
(h) Rejection: "That a Nasi will sin" - he is liable like a
Nasi if and only if he sinned when he was Nasi.
2. A Nasi is liable for Shogeg, all the more so he
should be liable after he is deposed!
1. This teaches that he is liable after he is demoted.
(a) (Mishnah): If a commoner sinned, then he was appointed to
be Kohen Gadol or Nasi, he brings like a commoner;
(b) R. Shimon says, this is if he found out that he sinned
before he was appointed; if he found out afterwards, he
(c) The Nasi is the king - "Hash-m Elokav", only Hash-m is
(d) (Gemara) Question: What is the source of this?
(e) Answer (Beraisa): "If the Mashu'ach will sin (he brings a
Par)" - but not for sins before he was appointed.
(f) Suggestion: A Kal va'Chomer should teach this!
1. A Nasi is liable for Shogeg, yet he does not bring
the Korban of a Nasi for sins before he was
appointed - a Mashu'ach is only liable for Shogeg on
account of Hora'ah, all the more so does not bring
the Korban of a Mashu'ach for prior sins!
(g) Rejection: We cannot learn from a Nasi, for he does not
bring his special Korban after he is deposed, but a
Mashu'ach brings his special Korban after he is demoted!
1. Therefore, we need "If the Mashu'ach will sin" - if
he sinned when he was as a Mashu'ach, he brings; if
he sinned when he was a regular Kohen, he does not
(h) (Beraisa): "That a Nasi will sin (he brings a Sa'ir)" -
but not for sins before he was appointed.
(i) Suggestion: We should know this from a Kal va'Chomer!
1. A Mashu'ach brings his special Korban after he is
demoted, yet he does not bring it for sins before he
was appointed; a Nasi does not bring his special
Korban after he is deposed, all the more so does not
bring it for prior sins!
(j) Rejection: We cannot learn from a Mashu'ach, for he is
exempt for Shogeg!
1. Therefore, we need "That a Nasi will sin" - if he
sinned when he was Nasi (he brings the Korban of a
Nasi), not if he sinned when he was a commoner.
(k) (Beraisa) Suggestion: "That a Nasi will sin" - perhaps it
is decreed that he will sin!
(l) Rejection: It says "*If* the Mashu'ach will sin" -
likewise, the Torah teaches what a Nasi brings *if* he
1. Question: Why do we need a verse, how could we have
thought that it is decreed that he will sin?!
(m) Question: Does R. Shimon really hold that Tzara'as of
Ones is not Tamei?!
2. Answer: We find that the Torah gives bad tidings;
i. R. Yehudah says "(Hash-m) will put Tzara'as in
a house" - this informs Yisrael that Tzara'as
will come upon them;
ii. R. Shimon says, this excludes a case of Ones.
1. (Beraisa): "A man that will see a Tzara'as in his
skin" - after the Torah was given.
(n) Answer #1 (Rava): R. Shimon holds that Tzara'as (of Ones)
caused by Shedim is not Tamei.
i. Suggestion: We can learn this from Zivah - just
as Zivah only applies after the Torah was
given, also Tzara'as.
ii. Rejection: We cannot learn from a Zav, for he
does not become Tamei through Ones, but
Tzara'as through Ones is Tamei!
iii. Therefore, the verse is needed.
(o) Answer #2 (Rav Papa): R. Shimon holds that Tzara'as due
to witchcraft is not Tamei.
(p) (Beraisa): "That a Nasi will sin" - this excludes if he
(q) Question: Even if he is sick, he is still Nasi!
(r) Answer (Rav Avdimi bar Chama): It excludes if he became a
1. "...The king was a Metzora...he sat in the house of
freedom" - implying, before this he was a slave!
2. A leader is as a slave, as we see from the
3. R. Gamliel and R. Yehoshua were on a boat. R.
Gamliel's supply of bread ran out; R. Yehoshua, who
had brought flour (for after the bread will run
out), shared with him.
i. R. Gamliel: How did you know that we might be
delayed so much, to take flour?
4. R. Gamliel decided to appoint them as the leaders,
to correct this. When he arrived, he called for
them; they did not come until he called for them a
ii. R. Yehoshua: There is a star that rises once
every 70 years and deceives sailors - I was
concerned for it.
iii. R. Gamliel: You are such a Chacham - must you
go on boats to support yourself?!
iv. R. Yehoshua: R. Eliezer Chisma and R. Yochanan
ben Gudgoda can calculate how many drops are in
the ocean, and they lack food and clothing!
i. R. Gamliel: Were you reluctant to come because
you thought I want to give you authority? I
give you slavery - "If from this day, you
(Rechav'om ha'Melech) will be a slave to this
3) REWARD AND PUNISHMENT
(a) (Beraisa - R. Yochanan ben Zakai): "*Asher* Nasi Yecheta"
- Ashrei (happy) is the generation whose Nasi brings a
Korban when he was Shogeg;
4) A SIN WITH GOOD INTENTION
1. If the Nasi will bring for Shogeg, all the more so a
(b) Objection (Rava brei d'Rabah): If so, "*Asher* he
misappropriated from Hekdesh" and "*Asher* (Yarovom)
sinned and made sin" should also be reasons for the
generation to rejoice!
2. If he seeks atonement for Shogeg, all the more he
will repent if he was Mezid!
(c) Answer: We only expound Asher regarding a Nasi, for the
Torah used a different word (than it used regarding a
Mashu'ach and commoner).
(d) Question (Rav Nachman bar Rav Chisda): What does it mean
"There is a folly done on the land (some Tzadikim are
treated as befits Resha'im, and Resha'im are treated as
(e) Answer #1 (Rav Nachman bar Rav Chisda): Happy are
Tzadikim, they are punished in this world (to cleanse
them from their sins) as befits Resha'im in the world to
come (where the punishments are much more severe);
1. Woe to Resha'im, they receive all the reward for
threir Mitzvos in this world, whereas Tzadikim get
(infinitely greater) reward in the world to come.
(f) Objection (Rava): Why shouldn't a Tzadik be rewarded in
(g) Answer #2 (Rava): Happy are Tzadikim, they get reward (in
addition to reward in the world to come) in this world,
like Resha'im get (all their reward) in this world;
1. Woe to Resha'im, they are punished (also) in this
world, like Tzadikim get (all their) punishments in
(h) Rava heard that Rav Papa and Rav Huna brei d'Rav Yehishua
had learned certain tractates and became rich.
1. Rava: Happy are Tzadikim, they get reward (even in
this world), like Resha'im get (all their reward) in
(i) Question (Rabah bar bar Chanah): What does it mean
"Straight are the ways of Hash-m, Tzadikim will go in
them, Resha'im will stumble in them"?
(j) Answer #1 (Rabah bar bar Chanah): This is a parable to
two men, one ate his Korban Pesach for the sake of the
Mitzvah, the other stuffed himself and ate it.
1. "Tzadikim will go in them" - this is the first man;
"Resha'im will stumble in them" - this is the
(k) Objection (Reish Lakish): Why do you call the latter a
Rasha? Granted, he didn't do the Mitzvah ideally, but he
did fulfill it!
(l) Answer #2 (Reish Lakish): Rather, this is a parable to
two men, each is in a house with his wife and his sister.
One chanced upon his wife (and had relations with her),
the other chanced upon his sister.
1. "Tzadikim will go in them" - this is the first man;
"Resha'im will stumble in them" - this is the
(m) Objection: The verse discusses men going on the same path
- in the parable, they are in different paths (one did a
Mitzvah, the other sinned)!
(n) Answer #3: Rather, an example is Lot and his two
daughters. They intended for a Mitzvah - they are
Tzidkaniyos walking in Hash-m's ways; Lot intended to sin
- he is wicked, stumbling in Hash-m's ways.
(o) Question: Perhaps Lot also intended for a Mitzvah!
(p) Answer (R. Yochanan): An entire verse connects Lot to
1. "Lot lifted (his eyes)" - just as Potifar's wife;
(q) Question: But Lot was drunk (and unaware of what
2. "His eyes" - just as Shimshon's first wife was
pleasing in his eyes.
3. "He saw" - just as Shchem saw Dinah;
4. "The whole Kikar (plain) of the Yarden" - just as
"For a harlot, a Kikar (loaf) of bread";
5. "It is all Mashkeh (fertile)" - just as "... Those
that give ... and Shikuyai (my drinks)".
(r) Answer (R. Yosi Bar Rav Choni): The 'Vov' in "And when he
rose (after sleeping with the older daughter)" is dotted,
to show that he did not know when he went to lie with
her, but he knew when he got up.
(s) Question: The incest already happened - why is Lot to
(t) Answer: He should not have gotten drunk the next night.
(u) (Rava): "A brother cut himself off from a city of
strength" - this is Lot, who separated from Avraham;
1. "And quarrels like a bolt on a fortress" - he
instigated quarrels (that keep him out) like a
(v) (Rava): "One that seeks lust will be isolated" - this is
i. "An Amoni or Mo'avi will not marry into the
congregation of Hash-m".
1. "And in all salvation he will be exposed" - his
disgrace is revealed in Shuls (when they read the
above verse of the Torah) and Batei Medrash (when
they learn the following Mishnah).
i. (Mishnah): The prohibition of an Amoni or Moavi
(a) (Ula): Tamar and Zimri both had extramarital relations.
Kings and prophets descended from Tamar's act; many tens
of thousands of Yisrael died as a result of Zimri's act.
(b) (Rav Nachman Bar Yitzchak): A sin done with pure intent
(i.e. for Hash-m's sake) is better than a Mitzvah with
(c) Objection: But Rav Yehudah taught, a person should always
engage in Torah and Mitzvos, even with impure intent, for
this will lead him to do them with pure intent!
(d) Correction: Rather, a sin done with pure intent is as
good as a Mitzvah with impure intent.
1. Rav Nachman learns from "Ya'el, the wife of Chever
the Kini, will be blessed as women in the tent".
(e) (R. Yochanan): Sisera had relations with her seven times
- "Between her legs he bent, he fell, he lied...".
2. The women in the tent are Sarah, Rivkah, Rachel and
(f) Question: Ya'el enjoyed the sin (why is she praised for
(g) Answer: She did not enjoy it - benefit Tzadikim get from
Resha'im is bad for Tzadikim - "Beware not to speak to
Yakov good nor evil".
1. Question: We understand, he should not talk evil -
but why not good?
(h) (Rav Yehudah): A person should always engage in Torah and
Mitzvos, even with impure intent, for this will lead him
to do them with pure intent.
2. Answer: The good of Resha'im is bad for Tzadikim.
1. Balak offered 42 sacrifices (to try to curse
Yisrael); as a result, he merited that Rus descended
(i) (R. Chiya Bar Aba): Hash-m rewards even for a modest
i. (R. Yosi Bar Chanina): Rus was the
granddaughter of Eglon, king of Moav.
1. Lot's older daughter shamelessly called her son
Mo'av (from father) - the Torah said, "Do not
besiege Mo'av, do not wage war against them" - war
is forbidden, but we may afflict them.
(j) (R. Chiya Bar Avin): A person should always be quick to
do a Mitzvah - as a reward for the one night that Lot's
older daughter preceded the younger daughter, she merited
to have a descendant in Yisrael (Oved, the son of Rus the
Mo'avis) four generations earlier (than Rechav'om, the
son of Na'amah the Amonis).
2. Lot's younger daughter modestly called her son Ben
Ami (the son of my nation) - the Torah said, "Do not
besiege (Amon), do not instigate a quarrel with
them" - we may not pain them at all.