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1) FINE AFTER DEATH

(a) Question: Can she become pregnant (and give birth before becoming a Bogeres)?

1. (Rav Bibi): 3 women use a cloth to prevent pregnancy - a minor, a pregnant woman, and a nursing woman.

i. A minor prevents pregnancy, since it would kill her!
ii. A pregnant woman prevents a second conception, since this could damage the first fetus.
iii. A nursing woman prevents pregnancy, since it could force her to wean her baby.

2. (R. Meir): A minor between 11 and 12 years old uses a cloth; if she is younger or older, no;
3. (Chachamim): At any age, she has normal relations, and Heaven will have mercy on her - "Hash-m guards the simple".

(b) Suggestion: Perhaps she became pregnant and delivered as a Na'arah.
(c) Rejection: She cannot give birth in 6 months!

1. (Shmuel): Only 6 months separate a Na'arah from a Bogeres.
2. Suggestion: Perhaps it is never less than 6, but sometimes it is more.
3. Rejection: Shmuel said 'only'!
4. Version #2 - Question (Rava): Does a girl receive the law of a Bogeres after death?

i. If she receives the law of a Bogeres, the father loses the fine.
ii. If she doesn't receives the law of a Bogeres, her father receives the fine.

(d) Version #3 - Question (Mar Bar Rav Ashi): Is death considered as becoming a Bogeres (i.e. does it make her leave the father's jurisdiction)?

1. The question is unresolved.

(e) Question (Rava): If he had relations with her, then she became engaged, what is the law?
(f) Answer (Abaye): Does it say, the father of the Na'arah that was not engaged? (Certainly, the father still collects the fine).
(g) Question (Rava): According to your reasoning - a Beraisa teaches, if he had relations with her, then she married, she receives the fine - does it say, the father of the Na'arah that was not married?
(h) Answer: This is no comparison. Just as becoming a Bogeres takes her from the jurisdiction of her father, so too marriage.

1. If he had relations with her, then she became a Bogeres, she receives the fine; so too, if she got married.

(i) Engagement does not take her from the jurisdiction of the father!

1. (Mishnah): An engaged Na'arah, the father and husband jointly annul her vows.

(a) (Mishnah): An enticer pays 3 payments: embarrassment, blemish and a fine;
(b) A rapist pays these and also for pain;
(c) A rapist pays a fine immediately; an enticer, when he divorces her;
(d) A rapist keeps her as a wife; an enticer may divorce her;

1. The rapist must marry her even if she is lame, blind or leprous.

(e) If she transgresses a matter of forbidden relations, or is forbidden to marry a Jew, he may not stay married to her - "She will be a wife to him" - a woman that is fit to him.
(f) (Gemara) Question: For which pain does he pay?
(g) Answer #1 (Shmuel's father): Because he banged her on the ground.
(h) Question (R. Zeira): According to this, if he banged her on silk, he is exempt?!

1. (Beraisa - R. Shimon Ben Yehudah) A rapist does not pay for pain, because she was going to suffer the pain in any case, when she marries;

2. Chachamim: The pain of one who is forced is greater than that of one who willingly has relations.

(i) Answer #2 (Rav Nachman): He pays for pain of opening her legs.

1. Question: If so, an enticer should also pay!
2. Answer (Rav Nachman): This is comparable to one who says, tear my silk and be exempt.
3. Objection: My? The payment belongs to her father!

(j) Answer #3 (Rav Nachman): Wise women say, an enticed woman suffers no pain.
(k) Question: But we see that they do!
(l) Answer (Abaye): My (surrogate) mother told me, the pain is only like hot water on a bald head.

1. Rava: My wife told me, it is like a bloodletter's incision.
2. Rav Papa: My wife told me, it is like hard bread scratching the palate.

(a) (Mishnah): A rapist pays immediately, an enticer when he divorces her.
(b) Question: 'When he divorces her' - are they already married?
(c) Answer (Abaye): It means, when he does not marry her.

1. Support (Beraisa): Even though they said, an enticer pays the fine when he does not marry her, embarrassment and blemish are paid immediately;
2. In the case of a rapist or enticer, she or her father can block the marriage.

(d) By an enticer it says "If refuse will refuse the father" - this teaches that she may also refuse.
(e) Question: How do we know that this is also true by a rapist?

1. That she may refuse we learn from "To him she will be a wife" - willingly.
2. How do we know that the father may refuse?

(f) Answer #1 (Abaye): In order that a sinner should not profit.
(g) Answer #2 (Rava): We learn from a Kal v'Chomer.

1. An enticer only violated the will of the father, and the father may refuse - a rapist violated her will as well, all the more so the father may refuse!
2. Rava did not learn as Abaye - since he pays a fine, it is not considered profiting if he gets to marry her.
3. Abaye did not learn as Rava - since an enticer may refuse to marry her, also the father may protest; but a rapist may not refuse to marry her, we could say the same for the father!

(h) (Beraisa): Even though a rapist pays a fine immediately, when he divorces her, she has no claim on him.
(i) Question: But he is not allowed to divorce her!
(j) Correction: When she decides to leave him, she has no claim on him.

1. If he dies, the fine he had paid is in place of a Kesuvah;
2. R. Yosi Bar Yehudah says, she has a Kesuvah of 100.

i. Chachamim say that we enacted Kesuvah so that it should not be light in a husband's eyes to divorce his wife - a rapist cannot divorce her, so we did not enact a Kesuvah for her.
ii. R. Yosi Bar Yehudah is concerned that he will pain her until she wants to leave him.

(k) (Mishnah): The rapist must marry her.
(l) Question (Rava me'Parzika): We learn from a rapist to an enticer and vice-versa - why don't we also learn that this applies to an enticer?