POINT BY POINT SUMMARY
Prepared by P. Feldman
of Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Yerushalayim
Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld
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Previous daf Kesuvos 69
KESUVOS 69 (4 Sivan) - This Daf is dedicated by Rabbi Kornfeld's father, Mr.
David Kornfeld, to the memory of the members of his family who perished at
the hands of the Rotzchim in the Holocaust and whose Yahrzeit is observed
today: his mother (Mirel bas Yakov Mordechai), brothers (Shraga Feivel,
Aryeh Leib and Yisachar Dov, sons of Mordecai), grandfather (Yakov Mordechai
ben Rav David Spira) and aunt (Charne bas Yakov Mordechai, wife of Moshe
13) IS PARNASAH COLLECTED FROM SOLD PROPERTY?
(a) Question (Rav): What is the law when brothers diverted
the property to others?
14) PARNASAH IS AS A DEBT
1. R. Chiya was by Rebbi when this question arrived. R.
Chiya: Does he mean, they sold the property, or gave
it as collateral?
(b) Answer (Rebbi): It makes no difference - either way,
Parnasah is collected from it, but not food.
1. Question: Why didn't Rav specify, if they sold it or
gave it as collateral?
(c) (R. Yochanan): We do not collect for food nor for
2. Answer: Rav wanted to know the law by both.
i. If he asked the law when they sold it - if the
answer was, it is collected, all the more so,
if they gave it as collateral; but if the
answer was, it is not collected, he would not
know the law if they gave it as collateral.
ii. If he asked the law when they gave it as
collateral - if the answer was, it is not
collected, all the more so, if they sold it;
but if the answer was, it is collected, he
would not know the law if they sold it.
iii. Therefore, he phrased his question in a way
that includes both.
(d) Question: Did R. Yochanan not hear Rebbi's ruling - but
had he heard it, he would have retracted his own ruling?
Or, had R. Yochanan heard it, but nevertheless argued?
1. Suggestion: We can learn from the following that he
(e) Question (Rav Yemar): According to R. Yochanan - if a
daughter finds an object, and has money - she loses
2. (R. Yochanan): A man died, leaving 2 daughters and a
son. 1 daughter took Parnasah; the son died before
the other daughter received Parnasah - she loses her
Parnasah (and splits the remaining property with her
3. (R. Chanina): Even more than this - they said,
Parnasah is taken from sold property - how can you
say, she loses it?
i. If R. Yochanan had not heard Rebbi's ruling, he
should have asked - 'Who says that Parnasah is
taken from sold property?" (since he himself
4. Rejection: This is no proof - it can be, R. Yochanan
had not heard! When R. Chanina told him that Rebbi
said it, R. Yochanan accepted the ruling - but he
persisted to argue on R. Chanina, since in this
case, the daughter receives much property anyway.
(f) Answer (Rav Ashi): This was only said when she receives a
large share of the estate.
(a) (Ameimar): A daughter receiving Parnasah is considered an
(b) Question (Rav Ashi): If so - the sons cannot force her to
accept money (if she wants 1/10 of the land)?
(c) Answer (Ameimar): Correct!
(d) Question (Rav Ashi): If the sons want her to take the
land in one place - can she demand 1/10 of each piece of
(e) Answer (Ameimar): Correct!
(f) (Rav Ashi): She is considered as a creditor.
(g) Ameimar subsequently retracted, and agreed to Rav Ashi.
1. (Rav Minyumi): I saw a case come before Ameimar - I
could see, he held that the brothers could force her
to accept money.
(h) Question: Granted, she is as a creditor - but of the
father, or of the brothers?
i. The brothers said - 'If we had money, we could
force you to take it instead of the land', and
Ameimar was silent.
1. If she is a creditor of the brothers - she collects
middle quality land, without an oath (as a regular
lender collects from the borrower).
(i) Answer: The following episode proves, she is a creditor
of the brothers.
2. If she is a creditor of the father - she collects
low quality land, with an oath (as a lender collects
from heirs of the borrower).
1. Ravina authorized Rav Ashi's daughter to collect
middle quality land from her brother without an
(j) Rav Nechemyah sent to Rabah Bar Rav Huna that a certain
woman should collect Parnasah even from the base of a
i. She also collected low quality land from the
son of a deceased brother, with an oath (since
she was a creditor of the deceased brother, and
was collecting from his heir).
(k) Rav Ashi: When I was by Rav Kahana, we used to collect
for women even from rental of houses.
(l) Rav Anan sent a message to Rav Huna. 'Huna our colleague,
Shalom! When this woman comes before you, she should
collect a 10th of the estate.
1. Rav Huna (to Rav Sheshes): Say the following to Rav
Anan - verbatim - if not, you will be in Cherem
2. 'Anan, Anan - from land, or from Metaltelim? Also -
who sits at the head in the house of Marzicha?'
3. Rav Sheshes delivered the message verbatim, but
first apologized to Rav Anan: 'You are greater than
me; Rav Huna is greater than you; he said I will be
in Cherem if I do not give this message - otherwise,
I would not say it! Anan, Anan ...'
4. Rav Anan consulted with Mar Ukva. 'Do you see how he
treated me? Also - what is Marzicha?'
15) ONE WHO ENTRUSTS MONEY TO GIVE TO HIS DAUGHTER
5. Mar Ukva: What is the full story? Rav Anan
(m) Question: What is Marzicha?
6. Mar Ukva: You do not know what Marzicha is, and you
called Rav Huna 'our colleague'?
(n) Answer: A mourner - "Do not come to a house of Marzach".
(o) Question (R. Avahu): How do we know that a mourner sits
at the head?
(p) Answer #1 (R. Avahu): "I will choose their ways and sit
at the head ... as mourners Yinachem".
1. Question: "Yinachem" implies consoling others!
(q) Answer #2 (Mar Zutra): "v'Sar Marzach Seruchim" - a
mourner becomes a Sar (leader) to consolers.
2. Answer (Rav Nachman Bar Yitzchak): It is written
"Yinachem" (he will be consoled).
(r) (Rava): The law is - for feeding a widow and daughters,
for paying a Kesuvah, and giving a dowry to daughters -
these are taken only from land, not from Metaltelim.
(a) (Mishnah - R. Meir): One who puts his money by a 3rd
party to give to his daughter - she says, I trust my
husband, the 3rd party should do as he was instructed;
(b) R. Yosi says, this is like a field, and she wants to sell
it - it is as if it is already sold!
(c) This applies to an adult; but the actions of a minor are
(d) (Gemara - Beraisa - R. Meir): One who puts his money by a
3rd party to give to his son-in-law, to buy a field for
his daughter, and she says, give it to my husband - if
she has had Nisu'in, we heed her; if she is engaged, the
3rd party should do as he was instructed;
(e) R. Yosi says, an adult, whether fully married or engaged,
we heed her; a minor, whether fully married or engaged,
the 3rd party should do as he was instructed.
(f) Question: In which cases do they argue?
1. Suggestion: A married minor - R. Meir says, we heed
her; R. Yosi says, even by full marriage, only an
adult is heeded.
(g) Answer: They argue by an engaged adult.
2. Question: But the Mishnah ends, 'but the actions of
a minor are void' - who taught this?
i. Suggestion: If R. Yosi - but he already said,
'it is as a field she wants to sell' - we know
he is only talking about an adult, who can
3. Answer: Rather, R. Meir taught it, and the Mishnah
left out words; it means as follows:
4. (Mishnah): The 3rd party should do as he was
instructed - this refers to engagement; but from
full marriage, we heed her. This refers to an adult;
but the actions of a minor are void.
(h) (Rav Yehudah): The law is as R. Yosi.
(i) (Rava): The law is as R. Meir.
(j) Ilfa hung himself on a mast. 'If anyone can say a Tosefta
of R. Chiya and R. Oshiya, for which I cannot bring its
source in the Mishnah, I will fall and drown!'
1. An elder asked the source of this Tosefa: One who
says, 'Give a Shekel to my children each week, and
they are worthy to get a Sela - we give them a Sela;
if he said, only give them a Shekel, we only give
them a Shekel;
i. If he said, if they die, others should inherit
in place of them, whether or not he said
'only', we only give them a Shekel.
2. Ilfa: That is as R. Meir, who says it is a Mitzvah
to fulfill the words of the deceased.