Ask A Question on the daf

Previous daf

1) BAD LINEAGES THAT WIDELY INTERMARRIED

(a) (R. Chama bar Chanina): When Hash-m purifies families, He will begin with the Levi'im - "The Purifier will purify silver and purify the Levi'im as gold and silver, and they will bring Minchah offerings in Tzedakah".
(b) (R. Yehoshua ben Levi): (Disqualified families that intermarried with many families because of their) money will cause (these) families to be permitted in the future (since Hash-m does not want to disqualify all the families that intermarried with them) - "The Purifier (Hash-m) will purify money".

1. Question: What does it mean "They will bring Minchah offerings in Tzedakah"?
2. Answer (R. Yitzchak): Hash-m did Tzedakah with Yisrael, to permit disqualified families.

(c) (Rav Yehudah): All lands are as dough compared to Eretz Yisrael; Eretz Yisrael is as dough compared to Bavel.
(d) In Rebbi's time, people wanted to say that Bavel is as dough compared to Eretz Yisrael.

1. Rebbi (who was from Bavel): You are causing problems for me - R. Chanina bar Chama can deal with you.
2. (R. Chanina bar Chama, citing R. Yosi): All lands are as dough compared to Eretz Yisrael; Eretz Yisrael is as dough compared to Bavel.

(e) In R. Pinchas' time, people wanted to say that Bavel is as dough compared to Eretz Yisrael. He told his servants to be ready to quickly take him out in a carriage after he speaks in the Beis Medrash.

1. R. Pinchas: The Torah does not require slaughter of birds.
2. While people were thinking about this, he said: 'All lands are as dough compared to Eretz Yisrael; Eretz Yisrael is as dough compared to Bavel'; his servants rushed him out. People chased him, but could not catch him.
3. People started investigating lineages. They found that there were problems in powerful families (that would kill them if they revealed this) - they stopped investigating.

(f) (R. Yochanan): We could reveal the problematic families in Eretz Yisrael - but greats of the generation are involved (and this would disgrace them).

1. He holds as R. Yitzchak, who said that a problematic family that intermarried with many others, we do not separate from it.
2. Support (Abaye - Mishnah): Ben Tziyon (a powerful and important person) caused people to accept (intermarry with) 1 family of improper lineage, and caused people to stay away from a proper family;

i. Such families, Eliyahu will disqualify and purify, push away and draw close - because people know that their true nature;
ii. But an improper family that widely intermarried (and people thought it was proper), it will be left as is.

3. (Beraisa): There was another family (not mentioned in the Mishnah) that was accepted by force - Chachamim did not reveal its name, but they would pass on the name to their Talmidim and children once every 7 years; some say, twice every 7 years.
4. (Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak): It is more reasonable to say once every 7 years, as a Beraisa.

i. (Beraisa): I will be a Nazir if I do not reveal improper families - he must be a Nazir, he may not reveal. (This shows how much we must avoid revealing about families.)

(a) (Rabah bar bar Chanah): (The true pronunciation of) Hash-m's 4 letter name - Chachamim pass it on to their Talmidim and children once every 7 years; some say, twice every 7 years.

1. (Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak): It is more reasonable to say once every 7 years - "This is my name L'olam (forever)" - it is written missing a 'Vov', so we may read it as Le'alem (to conceal).
2. Rava planned to reveal the name in his class - an elder remarked, it is written as Le'alem.

(b) Contradiction (R. Avina): One verse says "This is my name"; another verse says "This is my remembrance"!
(c) Answer: Hash-m's name is not pronounced as it is written - it is written with Yud-Kei, but it is pronounced as Aleph-Dalet.
(d) (Beraisa): At first, they would pass on Hash-m's 12-letter name to everyone; when base people became widespread, they would only pass it on to befitting Kohanim;

1. The befitting Kohanim would quietly say it, it would be drowned out by the voices of the other Kohanim.

(e) (R. Tarfon): I once came close and heard the Kohen Gadol saying it amidst the other Kohanim.
(f) (Rav Yehudah): The 42-letter name is only taught to someone befitting, humble, middle aged, who does not get angry or drunk or harbor resentment.

1. Anyone that knows the name and guards it in Taharah - he is beloved in Heaven and earth, people fear him, and he inherits this world and the next.

(a) (Shmuel): Any place in Bavel - we assume the lineage is fine, unless we know there was a problem;

1. Other lands (but not Eretz Yisrael) - we assume the lineage is bad, unless we know that it is good;
2. In Eretz Yisrael - areas established as bad are bad, areas established as good are good.
3. Contradiction: By saying 'areas established as bad are bad' - this implies, areas we do not know about are assumed to be good;

i. By saying 'areas established as good are good' - this implies, areas we do not know about are assumed to be bad!

4. Answer (Rav Huna bar Tachlifa): To marry a woman, an unknown place is assumed to be bad (she must be checked);

(b) (Rav Yosef): Anyone that speaks as someone of Bavel - we assume he is of Bavel (and a woman may marry him without checking).

1. Today, people speak this way to trick people, so we cannot rely on this.

(c) R. Yochanan wanted to marry his daughter to Ze'iri; Ze'iri did not want to marry her (since he was from Bavel, of superior lineage), so he was avoiding R. Yochanan.

1. R. Yochanan: You treat me as your Rebbi - you accept our Torah (of Eretz Yisrael), but not our daughters?!

i. Do you learn from our Mishnah (10 lineages...) that all the people of bad lineage left Bavel? No - just as people of good lineage remained, also people of bad lineage!

2. R. Yochanan forgot R. Elazar's teaching - Ezra did not leave Bavel until he made it as clean flour (by taking all the problems with him).

(d) Ula saw that Rav Yehudah's son was old enough that he should be married, but was not.

1. Ula: Why don't you marry off your son?
2. Rav Yehudah: Where can I find a girl of proper lineage?
3. Ula: Who can guarantee that we ourselves are fine - perhaps we descend from women ravaged by the destroyers of the Mikdash!
4. Suggestion: Perhaps you will say that the child of a Yisraelis from a Nochri or slave is Kosher.
5. Rejection: Still, there are Mamzerim among Yisrael from adultery!

i. (R. Yosi bar Chanina): "Those that lie on ivory beds and Seruchim (overhang, or stink) on their beds" - these are people that urinate naked in front of their beds.
ii. Objection (R. Avahu): For this, "They will be the first to be exiled "?!
iii. (R. Avahu): Rather, these are people that eat together, stick their beds together and swap wives; they make their beds stink with others' semen.

6. Rav Yehudah: What should we do?
7. Ula: Look for a family that is silent when confronted.

(e) In Eretz Yisrael, when families quarrel, the first family to be silent is considered to have better lineage.
(f) (Rav): The best lineage in Bavel are the families that are silent.
(g) Question: But Rav came to Bei Shichla and checked them!

1. Suggestion: He checked their lineage (by inquiring about their parents...)
2. Rejection: No - he checked which families are silent.

(h) (Rav Yehudah): If you see 2 men quarrel - one of them has bad lineage, Hash-m is preventing them from intermarrying.
(i) (R. Yehoshua ben Levi): If you see 2 families quarreling - one of them has bad lineage, Hash-m is preventing them from intermarrying.

(a) (Rav Papa Sava): Bavel's lineage is clean; that of Meishon is all disqualified, some of Madai is disqualified, most of Eilam is disqualified.
(b) Question: What area is considered Bavel (past the Chidekel river)?
(c) Answer #1 (Rav): Until the river Azak.
(d) Answer #2 (Shmuel): Until the river Yu'ani.
(e) Question: Between the Pras and Chidekel rivers - how far along the Diglas (i.e. the Chidekel) does Bavel extend (on the south)?
(f) Answer #1 (Rav): Until Bagda and Avna.
(g) Answer #2 (Shmuel) Until but not including Mushchani.

1. Objection: But R. Chiya bar Aba cited Shmuel as saying that Mushchani is the elite of lineage!
2. Correction (Shmuel): Rather, until and including Mushchani.

(h) Question: How far along the Diglas does Bavel extend (on the north)?
(i) Answer: (Rav Shmuel): Until the lower Afmaya.
(j) Question: How far along the Pras does Bavel extend (on the south)?
(k) Answer #1: (Rav): Until Aka.
(l) Answer #2 (Shmuel): Until the bridge of Pras.
(m) Answer #3 (R. Yochanan): Until the Gizma bridge.

1. Abaye (some say - Rav Yosef) vehemently opposed Rav's opinion.
2. Question: All the more so, he should oppose Shmuel's opinion (who is more lenient)!
3. Answer #1: Indeed, he vehemently opposed Rav's opinion, all the more so Shmuel's opinion!
4. Answer #2: Shmuel is stricter than Rav - in Shmuel's day, the bridge of Pras was before Aka - later, it was rebuilt past Aka.

(n) Question (Abaye): How far does Bavel extend on the other side of the Pras?
(o) Answer (Rav Yosef): Are you asking regarding Biram? The best lineages of Pumbadisa marry people of Biram!