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Prepared by Rabbi P. Feldman
of Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Yerushalayim
Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld


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Kidushin 74

KIDUSHIN 72-75 - sponsored by a generous grant from an anonymous donor. Kollel Iyun Hadaf is indebted to him for his encouragement and support and prays that Hashem will repay him in kind.

1) PEOPLE THAT ARE ONLY BELIEVED RIGHT AWAY

(a) A judge is believed to say which party won the case and which party must pay.
1. This is only when the parties are in front of him - if not, he is not believed.
(b) Question: We should look at the written verdict!
(c) Answer: The case is, it was torn up.
(d) Question: He should judge them again!
(e) Answer: The case is, the verdict was based on Shuda (Rashi - the judge's estimation; Tosfos - the judge's discretion, whom he prefers to favor), perhaps he will not rule as the first time.
(f) (Rav Nachman): Three people are believed regarding a firstborn: the midwife, the father and the mother.
1. The midwife is only believed right away; the mother is believed the first 7 days; the father is believed forever.
2. Support (Beraisa - R. Yehudah): "He will recognize" - the father will inform others who is the firstborn;
i. From here we learn that a man is believed to say which son is his firstborn; similarly, he is believed to say that a certain son was born from a divorcee or Chalutzah (so he is a Chalal);
ii. Chachamim say, he is not believed to say that his son is a Chalal.
2) CHECKING SHETUKIM
(a) (Mishnah): Aba Sha'ul would call a Shetuki a checked one.
(b) Question: What does this mean?
(c) Answer: We ask his mother - if she says that his father is Kosher, she is believed.
1. This is as R. Gamliel.
(d) Question: We already have a Mishnah teaching this!
1. (Mishnah - R. Gamliel and R. Eliezer): A single girl was pregnant; she said, the father is Ploni, he is Kosher - she is believed;
2. R. Yehoshua says, she is not believed.
3. (Rav Yehudah): The law is as R. Gamliel.
(e) Answer: That Mishnah teaches that we believe the girl that she was not disqualified from Kehunah; our Mishnah teaches that she is believed regarding the child (that he is Kosher).
1. We understand according to the opinion that even R. Gamliel and R. Eliezer only believe her regarding herself, but not regarding the child - Aba Sha'ul teaches, she is even believed regarding the child.
2. Question: According to the opinion that R. Gamliel and R. Eliezer even believe her regarding the child - Aba Sha'ul doesn't teach anything new!
3. Answer: One might have thought, she is only believed when most men in the city are permitted to her - but if most are forbidden to her, she is not believed - Aba Sha'ul teaches, this is not so.
i. (Rava): The law is as Aba Sha'ul.
3) FORBIDDEN LINEAGES
(a) (Mishnah): All that are forbidden to marry into the congregation, they are permitted to each other; R. Yehudah forbids.
(b) R. Elazar says, definite Mamzerim may marry definite Mamzerim; doubtful Mamzerim may not marry definite nor doubtful Mamzerim.
1. Doubtful Mamzerim - these are Shetuki, Asufi and Kusi.
(c) (Gemara) Question: What does it mean, 'All that are forbidden to marry into the congregation'?
1. Suggestion: It means, Mamzerim, Nesinim, Shetukim and Asufim.
2. Rejection #1: The first Mishnah taught this!
3. Rejection #2: If so, regarding what does R. Yehudah forbid?
i. Suggestion: If he forbids doubtful Mamzerim from marrying definite Mamzerim - R. Elazar forbids this in the next clause, implying that R. Yehudah permits it!
ii. Suggestion: Perhaps R. Yehudah forbids a convert to marry a Mamzeres.
iii. Rejection: We cannot say this, the Mishnah did not mention this, it spoke of those forbidden to enter the congregation!
74b---------------------------------------74b

(d) Answer #1 (Rav Yehudah): The Mishnah says - all that are forbidden to marry into the congregation of Kehunah - such as a girl that converted before 3 years old (unlike R. Shimon bar Yochai) - they may marry each other (i.e. she may marry a convert).
1. Question: Why not say that it speaks of a girl that converted above 3 years old, as R. Shimon?
2. Answer: If so, this would imply that had she converted before 3 years old, she would be (permitted to Kohanim, as R. Shimon, and) forbidden to other converts - but this is not true.
3. Objection #1: The rule of the Mishnah (as Rav Yehudah explains) is not always true!
i. A divorcee, Chalalah, or Zonah cannot marry Kohanim (nor can a widow marry a Kohen Gadol) - they are not permitted to forbidden lineages (such as Mamzerim)!
4. Objection #2: We infer from the Mishnah, someone permitted to Kehunah (such as a convert, who can marry a Bas Kohen) would be forbidden to forbidden lineages - but a convert may marry a Mamzeres!
(e) Answer #2 (R. Noson bar Hoshiyah): Rather, the Mishnah says: anyone that may not marry his daughter to a Kohen - such as a convert that married a convert, according to R. Eliezer ben Yakov - he may marry other such people (converts).
1. Objection: But a Chalal that married a Bas Yisrael - his daughter is a Chalalah, she cannot marry a Kohen, yet a Chalal cannot marry a Mamzeres!
2. Answer: The Mishnah is as R. Dosta'i ben Yehudah (who says that children of a Chalal from a Bas Yisrael are Kesherim).
3. Objection #1: But a Chalal that married a Chalalah - all agree that his daughter is a Chalalah, she cannot marry a Kohen, yet a Chalal cannot marry a Mamzeres!
4. Objection #2: We infer from the Mishnah, someone whose daughter is permitted to Kehunah (such as a convert who married a Bas Yisrael) would be forbidden to forbidden lineages - but a convert may marry a Mamzeres!
(f) Answer #3 (Rav Nachman): The Tana'im argue whether Mamzerim result from siblings that marry each other.
1. The first Tana says, the children are Mamzerim; R. Yehudah says, Mamzerim result from adultery, not from siblings.
2. Objection: We already learned this argument in a Mishnah!
i. (Mishnah - R. Akiva): Mamzerim result from any act of relations forbidden by a Lav;
ii. Shimon ha'Teimani says, from any act of incest punishable by Kares - this is the law;
iii. R. Yehoshua says, from any incest punishable by death.
(g) Answer #4 (Rava): The Tana'im argue regarding Amoni and Mo'avi converts.
1. The first Tana says, anyone that may not enter the congregation - such as an Amoni or Mo'avi convert - he may marry other such people.
2. Question: If so, why does R. Yehudah forbid this?
3. Answer: It means, even though R. Yehudah forbids a convert to marry a Mamzeres - that is only by converts permitted to Yisraelim;
i. He admits that Amonim and Mo'avim, who are forbidden to Yisrael, may marry Mamzerim.
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