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Prepared by Rabbi P. Feldman
of Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Yerushalayim
Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld
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Previous daf Menachos 42
2) THE "SHI'UR" OF "TZITZIS"
(a) Support: We must say so, for it says 'similarly, there is
no Shi'ur of a Lulav' - this cannot mean that there is no
Shi'ur at all!
3) DO WE BLESS ON MAKING "TZITZIS"?
1. (Mishnah): If a Lulav is three Tefachim (and an
additional Tefach) that rustles when shaken, it is
(b) (Beraisa): Tzitzis refers to the Anaf (the strings that
hang straight) - "Ya'Yikacheni b'Tzitzis Roshi".
2. We must say, there is no maximum length of a Lulav,
but there is a minimum;
3. Likewise, there is no maximum length of Tzitzis, but
there is a minimum!
(c) (Abaye): The strings must be separated like the Bluris of
Nochrim (hair grown long for the sake of idolatry - they
are tied near the head, and separate away from the head).
(d) (Beraisa): If one attached strings on the corner (R.
Gershom - without distancing three Etzba'os) or on the
thick thread on the edge, it is Kosher;
(e) R. Eliezer ben Yakov says, both of these are Pasul.
(f) Question: Like which Tana does Rav hold?
1. (Rav): Tzitzis must hang over the corner.
(g) Answer: He holds like R. Eliezer ben Yakov.
(h) (R. Yakov): One must distance the Tzitzis from the corner
a Godel (Rashi - from the end of the thumb until the
first knuckle; R. Gershom - the entire length of the
thumb, this equals three Etzba'os).
(i) We need the teachings of R. Yakov and Rav Papa (end of
1. Rav Papa gave the maximum distance (three Etzba'os)
from the corner - one might have thought, it can be
as close as desired!
(j) The corner of Ravina's garment tore, the Tzitzis was no
longer a Godel from the corner.
2. R. Yakov gave the minimum distance from the corner -
one might have thought, it can be as far as desired!
1. Rav Sama (to Ravina): Do you disagree with R.
(k) Rav Acha bar Yakov folded four strings, and put the
folded ends through the corner; he then put the eight
ends through the folded loops;
2. Ravina: That only applies when attaching the
3. Rav Sama was embarrassed. Rav Ashi comforted him -
people from Eretz Yisrael (such as Ravina) have
twice the Chachmah of people of Bavel.
1. He requires Gedilim (four strings) in the place of
Pesil (where they are folded, making eight - Rashi
(see Ma'adanei Yom Tov on the Rosh); Tosfos (38A,
ha'Techeiles at the end) explains, he put four
doubled strings of Lavan, and four of Techeiles.
Others explain, Gedilim itself connotes eight - see
Shitah, Bach on the Rif.)
(l) R. Yirmeyah mi'Difti folded eight strings, and put the
folded ends through the corner; he did not put the 16
ends through the loops;
(m) Mar brei d'Ravina did as we do (he put four strings (not
folded) through the corner.
(a) Rav Ada bar Ahavah made a Brachah on making Tzitzis.
1. Rav Nachman: this is wrong - Rav taught, we do not
bless on making Tzitzis.
(b) Version #1 - Contradiction (Rav Chisda): But Rav Yehudah
cited Rav to say that a Nochri cannot make Tzitzis,
because it says "Daber El Benei Yisrael v'Asu Lahem
Tzitzis" - Yisraelim can make Tzitzis, not Nochrim!
1. Question: What is the contradiction?
(c) Answer: This is not difficult for Rav - he holds that a
Nochri cannot circumcise!
2. Answer (Rav Yosef): Rav Chisda holds that a Yisrael
blesses precisely on Mitzvos a Nochri cannot do.
3. Question: This is not always true - a Nochri can
circumcise, but we bless on it!
i. (Beraisa - R. Meir): If there is not a Yisrael
that can circumcise, a Nochri should
circumcise, not a Kusi;
4. One who circumcises blesses '...v'Tzivanu Al
ii. R. Yehudah says, a Kusi should circumcise, not
1. Question: What is the source that a Nochri cannot
(d) Question: Sukah supports Rav Chisda's rule, but Tefilin
2. Answer #1 (Daro bar Papa citing Rav): "V'Ata Es
3. Answer #2 (R. Yochanan): "Himol Yimol" - one who is
circumcised will circumcise others.
1. (Beraisa): A Sukah is Kosher even if it was made by
or for Nochrim, women, animals, or Kusim, as long as
it has the proper amount of Schach;
2. A Yisrael who builds a Sukah does not bless (on
i. (Beraisa): A Yisrael who builds a Sukah blesses
'Shehecheyanu'; when he dwells in it, he
blesses '... v'Tzivanu Leshev ba'Sukah'.
3. (R. Chinena): A Sefer Torah, Tefilin or Mezuzah
written by any of the following is Pasul - a
(Nochri) Min (even though he knows how to write it),
Kusi, Nochri, slave, woman, child, or Mumar
(idolater, or one who denies the Mitzvos),
"U'Kshartam...U'Chsavtam" - only one who is
commanded (and believes in) the Mitzvah of Tefilin
is Kosher to write.
ii. He does not bless 'To make a Sukah'.
4. A Yisrael who writes Tefilin does not bless:
(e) Answer: We bless on a Mitzvah which is final (e.g.
circumcision), even if Nochrim can do it;
i. (R. Chiya brei d'Rav Huna): We bless
'...v'Tzivanu Lehani'ach Tefilin' on Shel Yad,
and (some say - if he talked in between or
cannot wear Shel Yad) 'Al Mitzvas Tefilin' on
ii. There is no blessing for writing Tefilin.
1. We do not bless on a Mitzvah which is not final
(e.g. writing Tefilin, the final Mitzvah is wearing
them), even if Nochrim cannot do it;
(f) Regarding Tzitzis, the Amora'im argue whether it is a
Chovas Talis or Chovas Adam. (Rav Chisda holds that it is
Chovas Talis - therefore, attaching Tzitzis is the final
Mitzvah, a Nochri may not do it, so Yisraelim should
bless on it; Rav Nachman holds that it is Chovas Adam,
the final Mitzvah is wearing it, therefore a Nochri may
attach the Tzitzis, so Yisraelim do not bless on this.)
(g) Version #2 - Rav Mordechai - (Rav Yehudah citing Rav): A
Nochri can make Tzitzis - "Daber El Benei Yisrael *v'Asu*
Lahem Tzitzis", others will make Tzitzis for Yisrael.
(h) (Rav Yehudah): If Tzitzis were made from excess strands
on the end of the garment, they are Pasul (Rashi - on
account of Ta'aseh v'Lo Min ha'Asuy; Tosfos - they were
not attached Lishmah);
1. If they were made from Sisin (a certain plant), they
are Kosher (even though they were not spun Lishmah);
(i) (Shmuel): Even from Sisin, they are Pasul, Tzitzis must
be spun Lishmah.
(j) Rav and Shmuel argue like the following Tana'im:
1. (Beraisa): If Tefilin were covered with gold or with
hide of a Tamei animal, they are Pasul;
(k) Question (Abaye): How do you dye Techeiles threads?
2. If they were covered with hide of a Tahor animal,
they are Kosher, even if it was not tanned Lishmah.
3. R. Shimon ben Gamliel says, they are Pasul - the
leather must be tanned Lishmah.
(l) Answer (Rav Shmuel bar Rav Yehudah): We take the blood of
the Chilazon (a special fish) and cook it with dying
ingredients such as alum;
1. To see if it finished cooking, we take some in an
eggshell, and dye a tuft of wool in it. We spill out
the dye in the eggshell and burn the tuft.
(m) We learn three laws from this:
1. A dyed sample is Pasul (for Techeiles), the dying
must be Lishmah, if the sample dye would be returned
to the pot it would Posel all the dye inside.
(n) Question: A dyed sample is Pasul *because* dying must be
Lishmah (these are not independent laws)!
(o) Answer (Rav Ashi): Indeed, the second law is merely the
reason for the first, we learn only two laws.
(p) Tana'im argue about the third law.
1. (Beraisa - R. Chanina ben Gamliel): If a sample was
dyed in a pot, all the remaining dye is Pasul -
"Kalil Techeiles" (Rashi - nothing may be dyed
previous with the Techeiles (Rashba - for this
weakens it); Tosfos - because some of the dye
absorbed in the sample (which was Lo Lishmah) is
reabsorbed into the pot);
2. (The verse refers to Bigdei Kehunah, the same
applies to Techeiles in Tzitzis.)
3. R. Yochanan ben Dehavai is Machshir - "U'*Shni*
Tola'as" (we read this like Sheni, a second-hand
absorption of red dye, the same applies to