POINT BY POINT SUMMARY
Prepared by R. Yakov Blinder
of Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Yerushalayim
Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld
Ask A Question on the daf
Previous daf Moed Katan 17
MOED KATAN 17 (October 24) - In honor of the birthday of Simcha Klein of
Yonkers, NY, from the Leichmans of Teaneck, NJ. Ad Meah V'Esrim!
1) VARIOUS MATTERS CONCERNING NIDUY
(a) R. Tanchum (or someone else) repeats the inference
derived above, 16a, 3:d:1.
2) MORE ABOUT NIDUY
(b) R. Yosef: A rabbinical student may take the law into his
own hands, if he is sure he's right.
1. R. Yehudah put a rabbinical student in Niduy, although
the student was a teacher and his own students
needed him to teach them. This is because a teacher
of Torah is compared to an angel, and if his
behavior is questionable he should not be a teacher
2. R. Yehudah died before the Niduy was over, and the
other rabbis wouldn't annul it for him, because a
Niduy must not be taken lightly, as seen from
Rebbi's maid, as follows:
3. Rebbi's maid once put someone in Niduy for hitting his
son who was already grown up. This can lead to the
son rebelling against his father and dishonoring
him. The rabbis heeded her Niduy for three years.
1. Resh Lakish once put someone in Niduy for eating dates
from a field he was guarding. The man responded by
putting Resh Lakish in Niduy for declaring a Niduy
for insufficient grounds.
(e) Putting a Rosh Beis Din into Niduy
2. Since Resh Lakish didn't know the identity of the man
who put him in Niduy, he had to go to the Nasi, who
is empowered to annul Niduy in such cases.
1. R. Huna: An enactment was made in Usha (the seat of
the Sanhedrin at one point) that the head of a Beis
Din is not to be put into Niduy. Rather, we say to
him politely, "Stay at home." For a repeat offense,
however, he is put into Niduy.
(f) Mar Zutra Chasida, before putting a rabbinical student
into Niduy, used to first put himself into Niduy (because
he felt so bad about what he was about to do - Rashi).
When he went home at night, he would annul his own Niduy
and then the student's.
2. Reish Lakish: Even for the second offense there is no
Niduy. A Tamid Chacham is never put into public
(g) R. Gidel: A Talmid Chacham can put himself in Niduy and
release himself from Niduy (as Mar Zutra did above).
(h) R. Papa: "I deserve great reward, for I never put a
rabbinical student into Niduy. When one required
disciplining, he would be physically punished instead."
(a) What does the word Shamta (Niduy) mean?
1. Rav: It is an acronym for "Death is there."
(b) Does Niduy have a lasting effect?
2. Shmuel: It is an acronym for "He shall be desolation."
1. Shmuel: Yes, it sticks to one permanently like grease
smeared in an oven.
(c) Next there are two stories, one about a Niduy against a
dog and the other about a Niduy against a gangster,
issued in absentia, out of fear.
2. Resh Lakish: No; when a Niduy or Cherem is annulled,
it is completely erased, leaving no effect.
3) CLARIFICATION OF MISHNAH ON 14a, 1:a:5-6
(a) Question: Is special permission granted to the Nazir and
Metzora to shave because they did not have time to do so
before the holiday (their time was not up yet then)? Or
are they allowed to shave even if they did have time but
neglected to do so, so that they should not delay the
sacrifices that come in conjunction with the shaving?
4) A BERAISA ABOUT SHAVING ON C.H.
(b) Answer: A Beraisa explicitly permits it even in the
(a) A Beraisa states: A mourner and a Kohen may shave on C.H.
5) SHAVING FOR A MOURNER WITH EXTENUATING CIRCUMSTANCES
(b) Question: What kind of mourner are we dealing with?
1. If the Shloshim began before the holiday he should
have shaved then (see below, 19a, 2:b). Why does he
deserve special permission?
(c) Answer: The Beraisa holds like Aba Shaul, that Shloshim
starts on the seventh day, and the case is that the
seventh day was Shabbos, so he could not shave then. (Nor
could he have shaved on Friday, the sixth day of
2. If the Shloshim hadn't started yet before the holiday,
he is still in Shloshim now, and he can't shave for
3. If the day when Shloshim started (i.e., the eighth day
of mourning according to the Chachamim, who argue
with Aba Shaul, who says Shiv'ah finishes on the
seventh day in the morning, and Shloshim begins that
same day - see below, 19b, 3:b:1-2) was the day
before Yom Tov, and it happened to be a Shabbos, so
he couldn't shave on that day - the Halachah allows
(see below, 19b, 4:b) for shaving on Friday (the
seventh day of mourning) in that case, so again he
should have shaved before the holiday.
(d) The Mishnah didn't mention the case of "mourner" on its
list, because it holds like Chachamim (not Aba Shaul),
and the only possible case or a mourner being allowed to
shave during C.H. works out only according to Aba Shaul,
as discussed above in (b) and (c).
(e) Question: What is the case of "Kohen" in the Beraisa
(4:a)? (Background information, supplied by Rashi: 1. A
Kohen, during the week of his Mishmar, may not shave. 2.
A Mishmar always ends on Shabbos. 3. A Kohen may shave on
the Thursday of his Mishmar, in honor of Shabbos.)
1. If the holiday begins on Sunday (the day after his
Mishmar), he should have shaved on Thursday. Why
give him special permission? (The same question
applies if the holiday begins on Friday or Shabbos
of his Mishmar.)
(f) Answer: The holiday began on Thursday (or Monday -
Wednesday, for that matter), so he could not shave then
(because of Yom Tov) or before then (because of his
Mishmar). That's why he can shave now.
(g) The Mishnah didn't mention the case of "Kohen" on its
list, because it holds that, since all Kohanim
participate in the sacrifices on a holiday, the holiday
is like a Mishmar for them. Thus, they may not shave
during the holiday just like they may not shave during
their regular Mishmar.
(a) One Beraisa (#1) says that all the exceptions listed in
the Mishnah (on 14a, 1:a) concerning C.H. apply to a
mourner as well.
(b) Question: Another Beraisa (#2) says that the exceptions
do NOT apply to mourners.
(c) Answer: The first Beraisa is talking about someone who
had a second mourning period begin before the first was
(d) Question: Another Beraisa (#3) states that someone who
has one mourning period right after another may shave and
launder - even without the extenuating circumstances of
(e) Answer: This Beraisa (#3) permits only thinning the beard
with a razor (not touching the skin, of course) and
laundering without detergent. The extenuating
circumstances are necessary to permit regular shaving and
laundering, and this is what Beraisa #1 was talking
(f) Conclusion from Beraisa #3: A mourner is normally
forbidden to launder his clothes.