Ask A Question on the daf

Previous daf

1) DO ALL AGREE TO VOWS OF PERSUASION?

(a) Answer #1 (Mishnah): Reuven said to Shimon, 'It is forbidden for me to benefit from you if you will not take from me a Kor of wheat and 2 barrels of wine for your son' - Reuven can permit his own vow without a Chacham.

1. Reuven can say, I only vowed for my honor - this itself is my honor (that people see that I don't want to take a gift from you).
2. We infer, had he not said this, the vow would be binding.
3. Question: As whom is the Mishnah?

i. Suggestion: If as R. Eliezer Ben Yakov - he says, this is a vow of persuasion!

4. Answer: Rather, it must be as Chachamim; we see, they argue on R. Eliezer Ben Yakov.
5. Rejection: Really, it is as R. Eliezer Ben Yakov.

i. He admits that this is a real vow - Reuven does not want to be as a dog, to take from Shimon without giving in return.

(b) Answer #2 (Mishnah): Reuven said to Shimon, 'It is forbidden for you to benefit from me if you will not give to my son a Kor of wheat and 2 barrels of wine' - R. Meir says, the vow is binding until Shimon gives;
(c) Chachamim say, Reuven can permit his own vow without a Chacham;

1. He can say, I consider it as if I received.
2. We infer, had he not said this, the vow would be binding.
3. Question: As whom is the Mishnah?

i. Suggestion: If as R. Eliezer Ben Yakov - he says, this is a vow of persuasion!

4. Answer: Rather, it must be Chachamim; we see, they argue on R. Eliezer Ben Yakov.
5. Rejection: Really, it is as R. Eliezer Ben Yakov.

i. He admits that this is a real vow - Reuven is not a king, he cannot constantly give to Shimon without receiving in return.

(d) Answer #3 (Mar Kashisha, son of Rav Chisda - Mishnah): Vows of Ones (beyond one's control) - Reuven vowed that Shimon must eat by him, and Shimon or Shimon's son got sick, or Shimon could not cross the river.

1. If not for the Ones, the vow would stand!
2. Question: As whom is the Mishnah?

i. Suggestion: If as R. Eliezer Ben Yakov - he says, this is a vow of persuasion!

3. Answer: Rather, it must be as Chachamim; we see, they argue on R. Eliezer Ben Yakov.
4. Rejection: Really, it is as R. Eliezer Ben Yakov.

i. Reuven did not initiate the vow, rather, Shimon did!
ii. Shimon asked to eat by Reuven; Reuven agreed. Shimon asked Reuven to forbid things on himself if Shimon will not eat by him.
iii. (Since Reuven was not trying to persuade Shimon, this is not a vow of persuasion); if not for the Ones, the vow would stand.

(e) Answer #4 (Beraisa): R. Eliezer Ben Yakov said even more - Reuven tells Shimon, I will not benefit from you if you do not eat hot bread and have a hot drink by me; Shimon refused. Even these are vows of persuasion; Chachamim did not agree to this.

1. Suggestion: Chachamim disagreed, even in the previous cases.

i. We conclude, Chachamim argue on R. Eliezer Ben Yakov.

(f) Question: As whom is the law?
(g) Answer (Rav Huna and Rav Ada Bar Ahavah): The law is as R. Eliezer Ben Yakov.

(a) (Mishnah): Vows of exaggeration: ' ... are forbidden to me if I did not see on this road as many (people) as left Mitzrayim, if I did not see a snake as the beam of the olive press.
(b) (Gemara - Beraisa): Vows of exaggeration are permitted; oaths of exaggeration are forbidden.
(c) Question: What are oaths of exaggeration?

1. Suggestion: If he says, 'An oath, if I did not see on this road...' - he said nothing!

(d) Answer #1 (Abaye): Rather, he said, 'I swear that I saw...'.
(e) Objection #1 (Rava): If so, this is obvious! (Rosh - that it is forbidden to swear thusly; Ran - that this is permitted!)
(f) Objection #2 (Rava): Oaths of exaggeration should resemble vows of exaggeration! (Rosh - that he prohibited something on himself; Ran - that it applies even when he is clearly lying, i.e. I saw a snake as an olive press.)
(g) Answer #2 (Rava): All fruits should be forbidden to me with an oath if I did not see on this road as many (people) as left Mitzrayim.
(h) Question (Ravina): Perhaps he means, he saw that many ants, and his oath is true!