POINT BY POINT SUMMARY
by Rabbi Ephraim Becker
Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Yerushalayim
Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld
Ask A Question on the daf
Previous dafYoma 79
YOMA 59-88 have been dedicated to the memory of the late Dr. Simcha
Bekelnitzky (Simcha Gedalya ben Shraga Feibush) of Queens N.Y. by his wife
and daughters. Well known in the community for his Chesed and Tzedakah, he
will long be remembered.
1) QUESTIONS ABOUT MEASUREMENTS
(a) (R. Papa) Do we calculate the Koseves with or without its
2) THE KOSEVES IS LARGER THAN A KEBEITZAH
(b) (R. Ashi) Do we calculate a Se'orah (an Etzem for Tumas Mes)
with or without its shell?
(c) Also, are we speaking of a moist or dry Se'orah?
(d) R. Ashi relies on HaGasah to address the question of R.
(e) R. Papa relies on the word Se'orah as opposed to Oshlah
(which is a Se'orah without its shell) and as opposed to
Shiboles (which is moist Se'orah) to address R. Ashi's
(a) (Rabah citing R. Yehudah) The Koseves HaGasah (of our
Mishnah) is larger than a Beitzah.
1. Chazal understood that a Koseves is the minimum amount
required for one to feel satisfied.
(b) Question: From the incident in the Mishnah in Sukah we see
that *two* Kosavos are *less* than a KeBeitzah, such that it
seems unlikely that *one*, even plump, Koseves with its pit
could be *larger* than a KeBeitzah!?
2. The violation of Yom Kipur occurs when one loses the
Inui of not eating, not when one actually eats (which
would be a KeZayis).
1. Food was brought on Sukos to R. Yochanan b. Zakai and
two Kosavos and a pitcher of water were brought to R.
2. In both instances, the Tana instructed them to bring
the food to the Sukah.
3. The Beraisa reports that this was not required, but was
4. When R. Tzadok was given less than a KeBeitzah of bread
he allowed three leniencies (including eating it
outside the Sukah) but if it was a KeBeitzah, it would
require a Sukah.
5. Thus it seems that the two Kosavos brought to R.
Gamliel were smaller than a KeBeitzah!
(c) Answer (R. Yirmiyah): Indeed, two Kosavos without their pits
are less than a KeBeitzah, while one plump Koseves with its
pit is larger (the volume of the pit is greater than the
meat, as R. Papa reported the common knowledge that the pits
comprise a bit more than 50% of the bushel).
3) THE KOSEVES IS SMALLER THAN A KEBEITZAH
(d) Answer (Rava): Actually two Kosavos are larger than a
KeBeitzah, but fruit never requires Sukah, and that is why
they need not have brought it into the Sukah.
(e) Question: But we learned in the Beraisa that any Achilas
Keva requires Sukah!?
1. Rebbi reported that when learning under R. Elazar b.
Shamua they were brought figs and grapes and they ate
them Achilas Arai outside of the Sukah.
(f) Answer: Rebbi meant that we ate even a large amount in an
Arai fashion outside of the Sukah.
2. We may infer from this that Achilas Keva (even of the
fruit) would have necessitated the Sukah!
(g) Alternate Answer: There was a large quantity of fruit and we
ate bread outside of the Sukah Achilas Arai, as well.
(h) The Beraisa seems to support Rava's assertion:
1. The 14 meals of Sukos may be filled in with Targima
(i) No, the word Targima could also mean fruit dessert!
2. If fruit could fill in, then the Beraisa should have
mentioned fruit (thus indicating that fruit does not
(j) Alternately, the Beraisa was speaking in a place where
fruits were not common, and thus used a dessert which does
not imply fruit, with no intent to exclude fruit.
(a) (R. Zvid) The Koseves HaGasah of our Mishnah is smaller than
(b) This is supported by the manner in which the position of
Beis Shamai is taught in the Mishnah in Beitzah:
1. Beis Shamai say that the Shiur Chiyuv of Seor is
KeZayis and of Chametz is KaKoseves.
(c) Question: Perhaps a standard Koseves is, indeed, smaller
than a KeBeitzah, but a Koseves *HaGasah* is larger!?
2. Their source for differentiating is the fact that the
Torah writes the Isur by Seor, as well, even though it
could logically be derived from Chametz (since Seor is
a more potent form of Chametz) as similarly being a
3. Now if a KaKoseves were larger than a KeBeitzah, then
Beis Shamai, when looking for a larger Shiur for
KeZayis, would have first come upon KeBeitzah.
4. Even if they (Kosves and Beitzah) were the same size,
KeBeitzah is far more familiar and would have been
5. We may thus infer that a KaKoseves is smaller than a
(d) Answer (still R. Zvid): Rather, my proof is from the Mishnah
in Berachos where a *KeBeitzah* is listed as satisfying.
1. For Zimun the participants need to have eaten a KeZayis
according to R. Meir and a KeBeitzah according to R.
(e) To summarize, KeBeitzah satisfies (for the purposes of
Birkas HaMazon) while a KaKoseves settles the mind of the
eater, invoking the prohibition on Yom Kipur.
2. R. Yehudah holds that the Pasuk teaches that for Birkas
HaMazon the food must fulfil VeSava'ta, which is a
3. If a KeBeitzah is satisfying, surely it is enough to
remove the sense of Inui required for the prohibition
on Yom Kipur!?
4. Thus we see that a Koseves HaGasah must be smaller than