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Zevachim, 83

1) LEAVING "PASUL" ITEMS ON THE MIZBE'ACH

QUESTION: The Mishnah records a Machlokes between Rebbi Yehoshua and Raban Gamliel regarding which items the Mizbe'ach is Mekadesh, such that if they are placed upon the Mizbe'ach they are are not removed, even if they are Pasul. Rebbi Yehoshua maintains that only items which would have been burned on the Mizbe'ach had they been valid are allowed to remain on the Mizbe'ach when they are Pasul. Raban Gamliel argues that even an item that was not supposed to be burned on the Mizbe'ach may be left on the Mizbe'ach if it is Pasul. The Mishnah explains that according to Raban Gamliel, even Nesachim (wine libations) -- which are poured on the Mizbe'ach and not burned, or blood -- which is placed on the Mizbe'ach and not burned, may remain on the Mizbe'ach when it is placed there, b'Di'eved, when Pasul.

The Mishnah then adds an additional statement in the name of Rebbi Shimon. Rebbi Shimon states that when a Zevach is brought together with its Nesachim, and either the Zevach, the Nesachim, or both are Pasul, the Zevach may remain on the Mizbe'ach but the Nesachim must be removed. The Beraisa later (83b) explains that Rebbi Shimon maintains that the only type of item we allow to remain on the Mizbe'ach is that which is similar to a Korban Olah, in that it is the item that the person pledged to bring, and not something that must accompany that which the person pledged to bring. Therefore, the Nesachim -- which are brought only to accompany the Korban that the person pledged to bring -- may not remain on the Mizbe'ach.

We know that every Korban Olah and Shelamim that a person pledges is accompanied not only by Nesachim, but by a Minchah offering as well. The Nesachim is a set amount of wine libations (which depends on the type of animal), and the Minchah is a set amount of flour offering (which depends on the type of animal). If Rebbi Shimon maintains that an item which accompanies a pledge is not left to remain on the Mizbe'ach when Pasul, then he presumably also maintains that the Kometz of the Minchah -- like the Nesachim -- is removed from the Mizbe'ach if it is Pasul. Why, then, does Rebbi Shimon mention only that the Nesachim are removed from the Mizbe'ach and not that the Minchah -- which should be identical to the Nesachim -- should also be removed from the Mizbe'ach?

ANSWERS:

(a) The Gemara later (beginning of 84a) quotes Reish Lakish who explains that Rebbi Shimon agrees with Raban Gamliel that even an item that is not normally burned on the Mizbe'ach (but is merely placed on the Mizbe'ach) may be left on the Mizbe'ach if it is Pasul. What is his source for this understanding of Rebbi Shimon? (See Rashi there, DH l'Divrei Chulan.)

Perhaps Reish Lakish learns this from the words of Rebbi Shimon in our Mishnah. Rebbi Shimon tells us that Nesachim are removed from the Mizbe'ach, while the Zevach remains on the Mizbe'ach. We infer from this statement that Rebbi Shimon is referring specifically to Nesachim which are brought together with a Zevach, and not to Nesachim which are pledged independently. The implication of this is that if the Nesachim are independently pledged, then they *are* left on the Mizbe'ach when they are Pasul. This demonstrates that Rebbi Shimon agrees with Raban Gamliel, who says that Nesachim and blood are left to remain on the Mizbe'ach. It is not consistent with the view of Rebbi Yehoshua, because according to Rebbi Yehoshua, Nesachim -- which are not normally burned on the Mizbe'ach -- are not left on the Mizbe'ach when they are Pasul.

Perhaps this is why Rebbi Shimon mentions specifically Nesachim and not Minchah -- he wants to show that *even* Nesachim are to remain on the Mizbe'ach when they are brought independently. It is obvious that a Minchah offering is left on the Mizbe'ach when brought independently, because even Rebbi Yehoshua agrees (since the Kometz of a Minchah offering is normally burned on the Mizbe'ach).

(b) The RAMBAM (in Perush ha'Mishnayos) writes that Rebbi Shimon agrees with Rebbi Yehoshua in our Mishnah (see also BARTENURA). The KEREN ORAH questions this explanation. If Rebbi Shimon agrees with Rebbi Yehoshua, then why does the Beraisa (on 83b) tell us that Rebbi Shimon requires the Nesachim to be removed from the Mizbe'ach because it does not come by itself? Even if it would come by itself, it would be removed from the Mizbe'ach according to Rebbi Yehoshua! In addition, the Keren Orah points out that this explanation seems to contradict what Reish Lakish says later (on 84a).

The Keren Orah does not answer his first question. However, from the fact that the Rambam makes no mention at all that, according to Rebbi Shimon, any item that accompanies a pledge is removed from the Mizbe'ach, it is evident that the Rambam has a different way of understanding the Gemara. Apparently, the Rambam understands that Rebbi Shimon is merely adding to the words of Rebbi Yehoshua, and he is not arguing. What the Beraisa (83b) means to say is that Rebbi Shimon is adding to Rebbi Yehoshua's statement and saying that even though the Korban which the Nesachim accompany is burned on the Mizbe'ach, this will not suffice to make the Nesachim qualify as something that is burned on the Mizbe'ach. The Beraisa means that the item itself must be something that is burned, and not that it is merely associated with something that is normally burned on the Mizbe'ach. This is why the Rambam writes that Rebbi Shimon agrees with Rebbi Yehoshua.

According to the Rambam, it is clear why Rebbi Shimon in the Mishnah mentions Nesachim. The Kometz of the Minchah offering, which is normally burned on the Mizbe'ach, would indeed be left on the Mizbe'ach since it itself is normally burned.

The Keren Orah *does* suggest an answer to his second question. The Gemara later (91b) implies that according to Rebbi Shimon, who holds that a "Davar she'Eino Miskaven" (an act that is done for a certain permitted purpose, but which *may* result in a transgression being inadvertently performed) is Mutar, it may be assumed that wine which is donated is not poured into the libation pipes on the Mizbe'ach, but rather the wine is poured directly onto the flames atop the Mizbe'ach. Wine is poured into the pipes only when it comes as an accompaniment (Nesachim) for a Korban. (This confers with the opinion of Shmuel in the Gemara there.) Since wine that is brought independently is burned according to Rebbi Shimon, he will agree that the wine, when it is Pasul, is left on the Mizbe'ach even though he agrees with Rebbi Yehoshua that only items that are normally burned on the Mizbe'ach may be left there when they are Pasul.

(According to this, when the Gemara (84a) mentions that if not for Reish Lakish's statement, we might have thought that Nesachim which accompany a Zevach are also left on the Mizbe'ach when they are brought on the following day (and not on the same day as the Zevach), the Gemara means that we might have thought that when the Nesachim are brought the following day, they are poured on the flame just like Nesachim which are pledged independently.) (M. Kornfeld)

83b