Ask A Question on the daf

Previous daf

1) BLOOD THAT ENTERED THE "HEICHAL"

(a) Question: R. Eliezer should permit putting the inner blood, and then the outer blood (regarding most Korbanos, which are not disqualified when their blood enters the Heichal)!
(b) Answer: (Indeed, he permits this -) since this may not be done for all Korbanos (Chatas and Asham), the Mishnah does not mention it.
(c) (Mishnah - R. Akiva): (If blood of any Korban entered the Heichal, it is Pasul.)
(d) (Rav Yehudah): A parable - a Talmid mixed wine with warm water for his Rebbi; the Rebbi asked him to mix (more), the Talmid asked 'With what'? The Rebbi answered, we are dealing with warm water, had I kept quiet, you would have known to mix with warm water;

1. Now that I tell you, I permit even cold water.
2. Similarly, the Torah was discussing Chatas (before teaching the Pesul of blood that entered the Heichal) - had it not specified, we would have assumed that the Pesul only applies to Chatas;

i. However, the Torah specified Chatas - this teaches that the Pesul applies to all Korbanos.

(e) Objection (Rav Huna brei d'Rav Yehoshua): Before this Pesul, the Torah taught that if any Kodshim were cooked in a metal vessel, it requires Merikah u'Shtifah (scouring and rinsing);

1. Therefore, the Torah mentioned Chatas regarding the Pesul of blood that entered the Heichal to teach that this applies only to Chatas!
2. The proper parable is to a Talmid who mixed wine with warm and cold water for his Rebbi; the Rebbi asked him to mix only with warm.

(f) Rather, R. Akiva learns from "V'Chol":
(g) (Beraisa #1 - R. Akiva): Question: "Chatas" teaches that if Dam Chatas entered the Heichal, it is Pasul - what is the source that this applies to all Kodshei Kodoshim?
(h) Answer: '*Kol* Chatas'.
(i) Question: What is the source that this applies also to Kodshim Kalim?
(j) Answer: "*V'*Chol Chatas"
(k) R. Yosi ha'Galili: You cannot include other Korbanos! Rather, "Chatas" teaches about an individual's Chatas (for before this, the Torah discussed Korbanos Yachid);

1. Question: What is the source for Chatas Tzibur?
2. Answer: '*Kol* Chatas' (i.e. had the verse said 'Kol', we would add only Chatas Tzibur - in truth, it says "V'Chol".)
3. Question: Perhaps this applies only to a female Chatas (i.e. of a commoner) - what is the source to include a male?

i. Objection: We already included Chatas Tzibur, which is always a male!
ii. Version #1 (Shitah Mekubetzes, according to our (and Rashi's) text) Answer: Chata'os Tzibur are always males - we need a separate source to teach about male Korbanos Yachid (e.g. Se'ir Nasi).
iii. Version #2 (text suggested by Tosfos) Correction: Rather, '*Kol* Chatas' teaches about a male;

4. Question: What is the source for Chatas Tzibur? (End of Version #2)
5. Answer: "*V'*Chol Chatas".

(l) Contradiction: Elsewhere, R. Yosi ha'Galili expounds differently!

1. (Beraisa #2 - R. Yosi ha'Galili): The verse about Dam Chatas that entered the Heichal refers to an inner Chatas (whose blood should be brought inside), that if it became Pasul, it is burned in Beis ha'Birah, and one who eats it transgresses a Lav.
2. Chachamim: What is your source to Posel Dam Chatas that entered the Heichal?
3. R. Yosi ha'Galili: I learn from "Hen Lo Huva" (the reason the Se'ir Rosh Chodesh was burned was not because its blood entered the Heichal (but had this happened, it would Posel the blood).)

(m) Answer: In Beraisa #1, R. Yosi ha'Galili addresses R. Akiva according to R. Akiva's reasoning.

1. (Granted, you say that "V'Chol Chatas" teaches the Pesul of blood that entered the Heichal - but you may learn from it only Chata'os.)

(a) (Mishnah): If the blood of a Chatas was received in two buckets, and one of them was brought outside (the Azarah), the remaining blood (inside) is Kosher;
(b) R. Yosi ha'Galili says, if one of them was brought inside the Heichal, the remaining blood (outside the Heichal) is Kosher;
(c) Chachamim say, it is Pasul.

1. R. Yosi ha'Galili: Intent for (eating or offering part of a Korban) outside (the permitted place, e.g. the Azarah) is Posel, yet bringing (some of the) blood outside does not Posel the remaining blood - intent for (eating or offering) inside (the Heichal) is not Posel, all the more so bringing blood inside should not Posel the remaining blood!

(d) R. Eliezer says, if blood was brought in Lechaper, it is Pasul, even if it was not thrown;
(e) R. Shimon says, it is not Pasul until it is thrown (Lechaper);
(f) R. Yehudah says, if it was entered b'Shogeg, it is Kosher.
(g) The Tzitz is Meratzeh (makes acceptable) Tamei blood, not other Pesulim, such as blood that went outside.
(h) (Gemara - Beraisa - R. Yosi ha'Galili): A Kal va'Chomer teaches that if some blood was brought inside, the remaining blood is Kosher!

1. Intent for outside is Posel, yet bringing blood outside does not Posel the remaining blood - intent for inside is not Posel, all the more so bringing blood inside should not Posel the remaining blood!
2. Chachamim: It says "Asher Yuva *mi*'Damah" - bringing even some of the blood inside is Posel the remaining blood.
3. R. Yosi: (According to you), a Kal va'Chomer should teach that if some blood was brought outside, the remaining blood is Pasul!

i. Intent for inside is not Posel, yet bringing blood inside is Posel the remaining blood - intent for outside is Posel, all the more so bringing blood outside should Posel the remaining blood!

4. Chachamim It says "Asher Yuva" - bringing blood inside is Posel the rest, not taking blood out. (Rashi - we rely on "mi'Dam*ah*", only this case is Posel the rest.

(i) Suggestion: A Kal va'Chomer should teach that intent for inside is Posel!

1. Bringing blood outside is not Posel the remaining blood, yet intent for outside is Posel - bringing blood inside is Posel the rest, all the more so intent for inside should Posel!

(j) Rejection: "Ba'Yom ha'Shelishi" - Blood is Nifsal only if it is brought into a 'triple' place, i.e. where blood, meat and Eimurim may all be offered or eaten (i.e. outside, at a time when Bamos are permitted - Rashi; Tosfos - a place where all of these are disqualified, i.e. outside the Azarah (for Kodshei ha'Kodoshim).

(k) Suggestion: A Kal va'Chomer should teach that intent for outside is not Posel!

1. Bringing blood inside is Posel the remaining blood, yet intent for inside is not Posel - bringing blood outside is not Posel the rest, all the more so intent for outside should not Posel!

(l) Rejection: "Sheloshi" - this teaches that (intent) Chutz li'Zmano is Posel; "Pigul" - this teaches that Chutz li'Mkomo is Posel.
(m) Meat that goes outside (the place it may be eaten, i.e. the Azarah (Kodshei Kodoshim) or Yerushalayim (Kodshim Kalim)) is Pasul, meat brought inside (the Heichal) is Kosher;
(n) Question: A Kal va'Chomer should teach that the latter is Pasul!

1. Blood that goes outside is not Posel the remaining blood, yet meat that goes outside is Pasul - bringing blood inside is Posel the rest, all the more so meat brought inside should be Pasul!

(o) Answer: "Mi'Damah" - blood brought inside is Pasul, not meat.
(p) Question: A Kal va'Chomer should teach that meat brought outside is Kosher!

1. Blood brought inside is Posel the rest, yet meat that goes inside is Kosher - bringing blood outside is not Posel the rest, all the more so meat brought outside should be Kosher!

(q) Answer: "U'Vasar ba'Sadeh Treifah Lo Socheilu" - meat brought outside its proper boundary is forbidden.

(a) (Beraisa): (Blood that is brought) "Penimah" (to the Kodesh ha'Kodoshim) is Pasul;

1. Question: What is the source for blood brought into the Heichal?
2. Answer: "El ha'Kodesh (Penimah - Shitah Mekubetzes deletes this)".

(b) Question: It would suffice to teach that blood brought into the Heichal is Pasul!
(c) Answer #1 (Rabah): Either of these words ("ha'Kodesh" and "Penimah") could refer to the Heichal or the Kodesh ha'Kodoshim - if the Torah wrote only one, we would learn the smaller Chidush (Kodesh ha'Kodoshim);

1. Now that the Torah wrote both, we know that "ha'Kodesh" refers to the Heichal.
2. We find a Tana that learns similarly regarding Toshav and Sachir (of a Kohen, the Torah forbids them to eat Terumah):

i. (Beraisa): "Toshav" is a permanent slave (Eved Ivri, i.e. a Nirtza, he serves until Yovel), "Sachir" is a temporary slave (Eved Ivri bought for six years).
ii. Question: It would suffice for the Torah to teach that Toshav may not eat, even though he is acquired permanently, all the more so Sachir!
iii. Answer: Had the Torah only said "Toshav", we would have assumed (the smaller Chidush,) that this refers to a temporary slave (but a permanent slave eats) - now that it also wrote "Sachir", this shows that "Toshav" refers to a permanent slave.

(d) Objection (Abaye): Your case is unlike Toshav and Sachir, they are different people, the Torah teaches about both of them;

1. Even though it could have explicitly said Nirtza, and we would have learned a temporary slave from a Kal va'Chomer, the Torah wrote both of them;
2. But if blood is Nifsal once it enters the Heichal, bringing it into the Kodesh ha'Kodoshim does not Posel any more, the Torah taught a meaningless Halachah!

(e) Answer #2 (Abaye): The Torah must teach that the Kodesh ha'Kodoshim is Posel when it was brought in abnormally (not through the Heichal, rather, through windows or the roof).
(f) Objection (Rava): But the Torah disqualifies blood that "Yuva" (will be brought inside), this connotes normal entrance!
(g) Answer #3 (Rava): If one intends to bring blood into the Kodesh ha'Kodoshim, it does not become Pasul until it gets there - therefore, the Torah must teach that the Kodesh ha'Kodoshim is Posel.
(h) Question #1 (Rava): If blood of the Par He'elam Davar (of the Tzibur) or of the Sa'ir brought for He'elam Davar of idolatry was brought into the Kodesh ha'Kodoshim, what is the law?

1. Perhaps it is not Nifsal if brought "El ha'Kodesh" (it must be brought in!), also it is not Nifsal if brought "Penimah";
2. Or, since it should not be brought there, it becomes Pasul?

(i) Question #2 (Rava): If you will say that it becomes Pasul - if blood of the Par or Sa'ir of Yom Kipur was (properly) sprinkled between the staves of the Aron, taken out to the Heichal, and brought back into the Kodesh ha'Kodoshim, what is the law?

1. Perhaps it is not Nifsal, because it must be brought into the Kodesh ha'Kodoshim;
2. Or, since it should not be brought back after it was taken out, it becomes Pasul?

(j) Question #3 (Rava): If you will say that it becomes Pasul - if the blood was (properly) sprinkled towards the Paroches, taken to the inner Mizbe'ach, and brought back towards the Paroches, what is the law?

1. It is not Nifsal, because it is essentially in the same place (it did not cross a Mechitzah);
2. Or, since the Torah calls this 'Yetzi'ah', it may not be brought back 'in'?

(k) These questions are not resolved.