ANSWERS TO REVIEW QUESTIONS
prepared by Rabbi Eliezer Chrysler
Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Jerusalem
Previous daf Zevachim 61
ZEVACHIM 61 - This Daf has been dedicated by Rabbi Dr. Eli Turkel of
Ra'anana, Israel, to the memory of his father, Reb Yisrael Shimon ben Shlomo
ha'Levi Turkel (Yarhzeit: 10 Av).
Rebbi Yirmiyah reconciled the two Beraisos ('be'Sha'as Siluk Ma'sa'os
Kodshim Nifsalin', and 'bi'Shenei Mekomos Kodshim Ne'echalin'), by
establishing the former by Kodshei Kodshim, and the latter, by Kodshim Kalim
(a Kashya on Abaye, according to whom Kodshim Kalim are Pasul). We refute
Rebbi Yirmiyah's proof however, by establishing both Beraisos by Kodshim
Kalim - the first Beraisa holds like Rebbi Yishmael (like Abaye), the second
Beraisa, like the Rabbanan.
(a) Alternatively, both Beraisos could even speak by Kodshei Kodshim, and
'Sh'nei Mekomos' means 1. when the Mishkan is still standing; 2. when they
have dismantled it (see Tosfos, Amud Beis DH 'u'le'Achar' and Shitah
Mekubetzes), but the Mizbe'ach is still standing in its place; whereas the
first Beraisa speaks when the Mizbe'ach has been covered too, and they are
already carrying it.
(b) The problem with our text, which reads 'Kodem she'Ya'amidu ha'Levi'im es
ha'Mishkan' is - that, bearing in mind that, whenever they camped, Gershon
and Merari would put up the Mishkan, before Kehas arrived with the Keilim,
it is not feasible for the Mizbe'ach to have been standing before the
Mishkan had been set up.
(c) We might answer that however - by establishing the case when a mistake
was made and somehow Kehas put up the Mizbe'ach before Gershon and Merari
erected the Mishkan.
(d) To reconcile this with the Sugya in 'Eizehu Mekoman', which invalidates
a Shelamim that is Shechted before the Kohanim have opened the doors of the
Azarah (because Shelamim need 'Pesach Ohel Mo'ed') - we will establish that
Sugya specifically by Shelamim (which is Kodshim Kalim), whereas our Sugya
is talking about Kodshei Kodshim.
(a) We might have thought that once the Mishkan has been dismantled, the
Korban is Pasul - because of 'Yotzei' (leaving ite boundaries).
(b) We learn from the Pasuk "Ve'nasa Ohel Mo'ed" - that even whilst the
Mishkan is traveling it is still called 'Ohel Mo'ed', in which case, the
Korban has not left its boundaries.
(a) Rav Chisda (or Rav Huna) Amar Rav learns from the three times in the
Torah (once in Yisro and twice in Ki Savo) that the Mizbe'ach is described
as "Mizbach Avanim" - that the Mizbe'ach in Mishkan Shiloh, by the Bamah in
Nov and Giv'on and in the Beis-Hamikdash were all made of stone.
(b) The Beraisa states that the fire that descended from Heaven in the days
1. ... Moshe - only departed when Shlomoh built the Beis-Hamikdash, and the
fire that descended from Heaven in the days of ...
(c) This poses on Rav, according to whom - it should also have departed,
from the time that they built the stone Mizbe'ach in Shiloh.
2. ... Shlomoh - only departed ('Lo Nistalkah Ela') when King Menasheh
(d) Initially, we answer that Rav holds like Rebbi Nasan, who says in a
Beraisa - that the Mizbe'ach in Shiloh was made of copper, but filled in
with stones (see Shitah Mekubetzes).
(a) According to Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak, 'Lo Nistalkah' means 'Lo
Nistalkah le'Vatalah', which the Rabbanan explain as 'Shevivin Havah
Meshadra' - meaning that whenever they brought Korbanos on the stone
Mizbe'ach, flames would emerge from the copper Mizbe'ach (which stood in
Shiloh too) and consume them.
(b) According to Rav Papa, it means - that sometimes the fire would descend
directly on to the stone Mizbe'ach, and sometimes it would come from the
(a) In a Mishnah in Midos, Rebbi Yossi describes how they added on to the
Mizbe'ach ha'Olah - when they built the second Beis-Hamikdosh upon their
return from Galus Bavel.
(b) They added four Amos on to the south side and four Amos on to the west.
(c) The Mizbe'ach in the first Beis-Hamikdash was twenty-eight by
twenty-eight Amos, and the Makom ha'Ma'arachah, twenty by twenty, the
corresponding measurements in the second Beis-Hamikdash were - thirty-two by
thirty-two Amos and twenty-four by twenty-four Amos.
(a) The reason Rav Yosef gives for this extension is - because of the
shortage of space on the Mizbe'ach.
(b) Abaye objected to that however - on the basis of the vastly superior
numbers in the era of the first Beis-Hamikdash ("like the sand by the
sea-shore") as compared to the second ("forty-one thousand"). So if it was
not too small before they went into Galus, why should it be too small after
(c) Rav Yosef overruled his Talmid's objection however - based on the Chazal
that in the second Beis, there was no Heavenly fire to consume the Korbanos
(so the Korbanos accumulated, and required more space).
(d) When Ravin arrived from Eretz Yisrael, he quoted Rebbi Shimon ben Pazi,
according to whom the extension to the Mizbe'ach was - for Nesachim to flow
down via holes bored in it (beside the bowl into which the wine was poured)
to the pit that led down to the Shitin.
(a) The Nesachim that were poured on to the Mizbe'ach during the first
Beis-Hamikdash - flowed directly from the roof Mizbe'ach into the deep pit
at its base.
(b) From the Pasuk "Mizbach Adamah Ta'aseh Li" Shlomoh Hamelech Darshened -
that the Mizbe'ach itself should be completely attached to the ground,
without holes bored into the ground beneath it for the Nesachim to drain.
(c) In the time of the second Beis-Hamikdash however, the Anshei K'nesses
ha'Gedolah Darshened 'Shesiyah ka'Achilah' meaning - that just like 'the
food' (the Korbanos) was consumed by the Mizbe'ach, so too should the drink
be absorbed by it (negating the previous D'rashah).
(d) And they explained "Mizbach Adamah" to mean - that it must be built
directly joined to the ground, and not via archways or on top of tunnels, as
we learned earlier.
(a) Initially Rav Yosef interpreted the Pasuk "Va'yachinu ha'Mizbe'ach al
Mechonosav" to mean - that the final measurements of the Mizbe'ach were
revealed to the Anshei K'nesses ha'Gedolah (but not to Shlomoh Hamelech), in
support of Rebbi Shimon ben Pazi's D'rashah.
(b) Rav Yosef himself did indeed just give a different reason to explain the
extension to the Mizbe'ach - but that was when, due to his state of health,
he was prone to forgetting many things that he had learned. His latter
statement was made after his recovery, when he would recall what he had
initially learned, and retract his errors.
(c) The problem with Rav Yosef's proof is - that Hashem revealed all the
measurements to David Hamelech (and Shmuel), as David is expressly quoted as
saying in Divrei Hayamim "ha'Kol bi'Kesav mi'Yad Hashem Alai Hiskil", so how
could any measurement have been hidden from Shlomoh and revealed to the
Anshei K'nesses ha'Gedolah.