ANSWERS TO REVIEW QUESTIONS
prepared by Rabbi Eliezer Chrysler
Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Jerusalem
Previous daf Zevachim 67
ZEVACHIM 66-68 - Dedicated to the leaders and participants in the Dafyomi
shiurim at the Young Israel of New Rochelle, by Andy & Nancy Neff
(a) In a Beraisa, Rebbi Eliezer tries to prove his opinion (i.e. that Olas
ha'Of le'Shem Chatas ha'Of is subject to Me'ilah) from an Asham that one
Shechted in the North as a Shelamim. He must be speaking about prior to the
Zerikah - because after the Zerikah, the Basar is no longer subject to
Me'ilah (seeing as it is fit to be eaten by the Kohanim).
(b) He is proving from there - that if one changes from something that is
subject to Me'ilah to something that is not (when it is Kasher), Me'ilah
nevertheless applies (in which case Me'ilah should also apply in the case of
Olas ha'Of that is brought as a Chatas ha'Of).
(c) Rebbi Yehoshua repudiates Rebbi Eliezer's proof from there - on he
grounds that, whereas in the case of the Olas ha'Of, the Kohen also changed
the location, in the case of the Asham, he did not.
(d) Finally, Rebbi Eliezer attempts to disprove Rebbi Yehoshua's opinion
from an Asham that one Shechted in the south as an Asham, where besides
changing its name, he also changed its location. Rebbi Yehoshua counters -
that unlike the case of Olas ha'Of, where cutting only one Si'man has also
changed to the Avodah of the Chatas, there is no change of Avodah in the
case of the Asham (since the Avodah of the Asham and the Shelamim are the
(a) Rebbi Eliezer remained silent. Rava asked why he did not query Rebbi
Yehoshua further from 'Asham she'Shachto be'Darom le'Shem Shelamim be'Shinuy
Ba'alim', where the Chiyuv Me'ilah remains. What Rava means with this is
that, before grasping Rebbi Yehoshua's real reason - we would place Shinuy
Ba'alim on a par with Shinuy Ma'asim (changing the Avodah), and just as
Me'ilah applies there, so too, should it apply in the case of Chatas ha'Of.
(b) To answer the Kashya, he cites Rav Ada bar Ahavah, who gives Rebbi
Yehoshua's reason as - the fact that the Olas ha'Of actually becomes a
Chatas ha'Of (even to the point of being Kasher, or so we think at the
(c) This answers the Kashya, because, Rava extrapolates, from the fact that
Rebbi Eliezer did not ask it - it is clear that he realized it himself.
(a) When we then ask 'I Hachi, Chatas ha'Of Nami, she'As'ah Lema'alah
ke'Ma'aseh ha'Olah ... be'Idach Si'man, Timashech Ve'tehavi Olas ha'Of', we
mean - that based on our current understanding of Rav Ada bar Ahavah (that
the bird actually becomes a Kasher Chatas ha'Of, according to Rebbi
Yehoshua), why does our Mishnah rule Pasul in the above case" Why do we not
say that when the cuts the second Si'man, it becomes a Kasher Olas ha'Of?
(b) We try to support this Kashya by citing Rebbi Yochanan in the name of
Rebbi Ban'ah, who says 'Kach Hi Hatza'ah shel Mishnah' - by which we think
he means that 'Olas ha'Of she'As'ah Lematah, is the only case in the Mishnah
over which Rebbi Eliezer and Rebbi Yehoshua argue.
(c) We answer however - that 'Kach hi Hatza'ah shel Mishnah' might mean that
their argument extends to the rest of the Mishnah, too (in which case it
will prove quite the opposite).
(d) Rav Ashi refutes the Kashya once and for all - by differentiating
between an Olas ha'Of that is brought below the Chut ha'Sikra - which
becomes a Chatas the moment he cuts one Si'man, with a Chatas ha'Of that is
brought above it, which (bearing in mind that Melikah is Kasher anywhere on
the Mizbe'ach) remains a Chatas when he cuts one Si'man, and a Pasul Chatas
the moment he cuts the second one.
(a) We ask on Rav Ada bar Ahavah from a Mishnah in Kanin, which discusses a
case where Rachel and Le'ah who had given birth, purchased a pair of birds
between them. The case is - where one of the women had already brought her
Olah, and the other, her Chatas. And the pair of birds that they purchased
was meant to make up for the two missing Korbanos.
(b) The Tana rules that, in a case where the Kohen brought ...
1. ... both birds above the Chut ha'Sikra - the Olah was Kasher, whereas the
Chatas was Pasul.
(c) We ask from the second case on Rav Ada bar Ahavah, why the bird that was
brought below the Chut ha'Sikra should not be Kasher anyway, even if it was
a Olah, like Rav Ada explained. And we answer - that Rav's ruling will apply
only to a case where one person is concerned, but in this case, how will
Le'ah who is Chayav a Chatas, be Yotze with Rachel's Olah (even according to
Rav Ada bar Ahavah).
2. ... one above the Chut ha'Sikra and one below it - both birds are Pasul,
because for all we know, the Kohen (without realizing it) brought the Olah
below the Chut and the Chatas above it.
(a) The Mishnah also discusses a case where Rachel and Le'ah required six
birds between them - the above Olah and Chatas plus a second pair of birds.
(b) Between them, they brought one Chatas and one Olah, one pair of
unspecified birds and one pair of specified birds. Like in the previous
case, if the Kohen brought all the birds above the Chut ha'Sikra, half of
them are Olos. In a case where the Kohen brought half of them above and half
of them below the Chut ha'Sikra, the Tana - invalidates all the birds except
for the unspecified ones, one of which automatically becomes a Chatas, the
other, an Olah.
(c) They are Kasher - on the basis of the Halachah that if the birds are not
specified by the owner when he designates them, then they become specified
when the Kohen designates them for the Avodah.
(d) To make up for the specified birds that are both Pasul, the two women
will be obligated - to purchase another pair of birds and to stipulate that
the Olah is being brought on behalf of the one who previously brought a
Chatas, and vice-versa.
(a) We now ask on Rav Ada bar Ahavah the same Kashya as we asked on the
previous Mishnah. We cannot answer like we did earlier, that the one woman
will not be Yotze her Chatas with the other's Olah (like we did there) -
because we are speaking here, when the women had not specified which woman
receives which bird (as they did there).
(b) Neither can we answer by establishing the Mishnah in Kanim not like
Rebbi Yehoshua - because the author of Kanim is basically Rebbi Yehoshua, as
we shall now proceed to prove.
(a) The Mishnah in Kanim rules that a pregnant woman who makes a Neder to
bring a Kan (a pair of birds, either pigeons or young doves) should she give
birth to a boy, when she does indeed give birth to a boy - must bring two
Kinin, one for the birth (an Olah and a Chatas), and one for her Neder (two
(b) ... because a Chatas can never be brought voluntarily (not even a Chatas
(c) Assuming that she did not designate the four birds that she subsequently
brings, when she hands them to the Kohen - he must bring three birds above
the Chut ha'Sikra, and one below it.
(a) The Tana then discusses what the Din will be if the Kohen mistakenly
brings two of the birds above the Chut ha'Sikra and two below it, without
consulting the woman - because he must have assumed that the woman gave
birth be'Zov (thereby requiring two Kinin, each consisting of a Chatas and
(b) Assuming that ...
1. ... both Kinin comprised the same species (either pigeons or young
doves) - the woman remains obligated to bring one bird of the same species,
to compensate the bird that was brought as a Chatas.
(c) The Din would differ if, in addition, she specified which species she
would bring for her Neder, and forgot what she said, assuming that ...
2. ... they comprised two different species - she will have to bring two
birds, one of each species, since the Tana is speaking when it is unsure
which of the two species the Kohen brought first for her Chovah and which he
brought last for her Neder (had this been clarified, she would only have had
to bring the second bird of whichever species was brought last).
1. ... both Kinin comprised the same species - inasmuch as she would then
remain obligated to bring three birds, one of the same species that she
brought the first time, and a Kan comprising the other species.
2. ... they comprised two different species - she would still have to bring
four birds, one of each species to complement the Chatas of whichever
species the Kohen brought last, which is either a pigeon (to which she must
add two young doves), or a young dove (to which she must Consequently, she brings two pigeons and two young doves.