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2) WHEN ARE WE CONCERNED FOR "NOCHRIM" TOUCHING?

(a) (Rav Asi): There are three laws of wine:

1. Wine that was offered to idolatry - it is forbidden to benefit from it, an olive's worth of it is Metamei (even people and vessels, if they touch or move it (Rambam; Rashi - even if they are in the same Ohel with it));
2. Wine of Nochrim (perhaps it was offered to idolatry) - it is forbidden to benefit from it, a Revi'is of it can receive Tum'ah like a liquid (Rashi; Tosfos - a Revi'is is Tamei);
3. If Reuven deposited wine by a Nochri - it is forbidden to drink (what he takes back), it is permitted to benefit from it.

(b) Question (Mishnah): If Reuven deposited produce by a Nochri, (we are concerned that the Nochri switched it with his own produce), Reuven must consider it (doubtfully) like the Nochri's produce regarding Ma'aseros and Shemitah.
(c) Answer: Rav Asi's law is when they specified a corner in which the wine will be kept (Rashi - and Reuven received the key to that area, or the container was sealed).
(d) Question: If so, it should be permitted to drink it!

1. (R. Tanchum citing Bar Kapara): If one deposits wine by a Nochri, it is permitted to drink it.
2. Question (R. Yochanan): "Mekom She'Yipol ha'Etz Sham Yehu" - after a Tzadik dies, he is not there!
3. Answer (R. Yochanan): Rather, after he dies, the people of his area perpetuate his teachings.

(e) Answer (R. Zeira): Rav Asi's law is according to Chachamim, the Mishnah is like R. Eliezer.

1. (Beraisa - R. Eliezer): If Reuven bought or rented a house in a Nochri's Chatzer and filled the house with wine, and Reuven has the key or a seal on it, the wine is permitted;
2. Chachamim forbid the wine.

(f) (Rav or Ze'iri): The Halachah follows R. Eliezer.
(g) Version #1 (R. *Elazar* (the Amora)): One seal suffices for everything except for wine.
(h) (R. Yochanan): One seal suffices for everything, even for wine.

1. Version #1A: They do not argue (about what the Tana'im said); R. Elazar holds like Chachamim, R. Yochanan holds like R. Eliezer.
2. Version #1B: They do not argue (about the Halachah, all agree that it is like R. Eliezer); R. Elazar explains Chachamim, R. Yochanan explains R. Eliezer.

(i) Version #2 (R. Elazar): Two seals suffice for everything except for wine.
(j) (R. Yochanan): Two seals suffice for everything, even for wine.

1. Both hold like Chachamim; R. Elazar explains that Chachamim argue even regarding two seals, R. Yochanan explains that they only argue about one seal.

(k) Question: What is the case of two seals?
(l) Answer (Rava): A bucket is plastered on top of the barrel, or a basket fit snugly over a corked barrel, or a wine pouch tied shut upside down in a sealed sack, or if one ties the pouch shut, presses the (tied opening) inside the pouch and ties again from the outside.
(m) (Beraisa): Originally, wine of Ein Kushi (and Barkesa..., cities of Kusim) was forbidden on account of Biras Serika (and Kefar Parsha'i..., nearby cities of Nochrim); later, Chachamim said that open barrels are forbidden, closed barrels are permitted.
(n) Question: Why did they originally forbid all wine, and why did they retract?
(o) Answer: Originally, they thought that Kusim never guard wine from being touched by Nochrim;

1. Later, they reasoned that they do not guard open barrels, but they guard sealed barrels (because they intend to sell them to Yisraelim).

(p) Question: But even sealed barrels are forbidden!

1. (Beraisa): One who sends a barrel of wine with a Kusi, or fish brine (with or without the innards mixed in) - if he recognizes the seal, it is permitted; if not, not.

(q) Answer #1 (R. Zeira): A Kusi guards (his own wine) in the city, he does not guard (another's wine) on the road.
(r) Objection (R. Yirmeyah): Wine in the city also was transported!
(s) Answer #2 (R. Yirmeyah): He guards when everyone is making wine, for then many people are around, he fears that people will see a Nochri touch it.

(a) Question: Why is beer of Nochrim forbidden?
(b) Answer #1 (Rami bar Chama): This is a decree to distance from Nochrim, lest we come to intermarry with them.
(c) Answer #2 (Rav Nachman): Because they leave it exposed (perhaps there is venom inside).
(d) Question: At what stage of the process of making beer are we concerned for exposure??

1. If after it is finished - also we leave it exposed!
2. If while it is fermenting in the barrel - also we leave it exposed!

(e) Answer: It is forbidden in a place where they leave the water (used for beer) exposed to become clear.
(f) Question: If so, old beer should be permitted!

1. (Rav): If (wine or beer) was exposed, and it was aged, it is permitted - if it contained venom, it would not age properly;
2. If grape juice was exposed, and it fermented, it is permitted - if it contained venom, it would not ferment.

(g) Answer: We decree against old beer on account of new beer.
(h) They would take beer out of a Nochri's house, and Rav Papa would drink on the porch;
(i) They would bring beer from a Nochri's house to Rav Achai's house, he would drink in his house.

1. Both agree that it is forbidden (to drink in the Nochri's house) on account of intermarriage; Rav Achai chose to distance himself further.

(j) Rav Shmuel bar Bisna came to Margo'an (a city of Yisraelim in which they were not concerned if Nochrim touch wine). They brought him wine, he did not drink it; they brought him beer, he did not drink it.
(k) Question: We understand why he did not drink the wine, lest a Nochri touched it - but why did he not drink the beer?
(l) Answer: This was a personal stringency, lest he drink their wine.
(m) (Rav): Beer of Nochrim is permitted; my son Chiya may not drink it.
(n) Question: Either it is permitted to everyone, or forbidden to everyone!
(o) Answer: Rav holds that it is forbidden because they leave it exposed; the bitterness of the hops burns the venom;

1. Someone who is already sick, this will aggravate his condition; my son is sick.

(p) (Shmuel): All Sheratzim (creeping creatures) have venom; snake venom kills, venom of other Sheratzim does not kill.
(q) (Shmuel citing Rav): Nochrim do not die from drinking exposed liquids (even if snakes injected venom), because their bodies are hot from eating Shekatzim and Remashim (insects and swarming creatures), this nullifies the venom.
(r) (Rav Yosef): Beer vinegar of Nochrim is forbidden, for they mix dregs of their wine with it;
(s) (Rav Ashi): If one sees it taken straight from the (large storage) barrel, it is permitted - they would not mix in wine, this would make it spoil quickly.